I should add, much like Uli Schroeber who invented the original bike power meter, the principals behind Stryd experimented with different sensor locations during development.
First it was a foot pod that provided lots of biomechanical information, but not power. The average runner couldn't wrap their mind around the information, though, so they decided to try to capitalize on the power meter craze in cycling and present the data that way. Triathletes were the logical crossover and familiar with HR, so it then became a chest strap providing data for both power and HR. Then biomechanical measurements like ground contact time started to catch on, so they dumped HR and moved back to a foot pod for the greater accuracy it provides.
Then they changed how uphill and downhill power are calculated, then they added the wind sensor, then they provided the option of two foot pods versus only one, but that's all really separate from where the sensors are placed.
Speaking of biomechanical measurements. It would be interesting to see what, if any, changes result from doing three sub-LT interval sessions per week (plus a longish run), and nothing more intense except for the occasional race. Are the people who are having success with this approach simply improving their running economy at around those paces? Or is it simply a case of not having done enough focused training of the right type to maximize fitness? Both?
For any long(ish) term Stryd users out there who have taken up this approach to training, have there been any measurable changes in your GCT, LSS, RE, etc ?
I've read the whole thread, sort of, skimmed over the trolls and the arguments about Stryd. Here are a few common themes I've noticed. (I posted back on page 431 and 432 or 433 about my initial experience with this method under "40+ runner").
- Consistency trumps intensity. If you don't know where to start, start by building up to 6 or 7 days easy running. Then add in sub threshold days. Then repeat forever.
- Routine is your friend. Stolen from a strength and conditioning community I frequent: "Make things as simple as possible, but not simpler." and "Simple does not equal easy, simple equals repeatable."
- Think of volume in minutes not distance. Changed my perspective a little when I looked at my training and thought, "I have 300 min/week I can train, I should start with 60-75 min of sub threshold/week." So that's what I did and the load started stacking up.
- Metrics like load, CTL, rTSS, etc are great but should be used in combination with easily measured physiological data like HR and pace. You should also be correlating those metrics with subjective data like "feel" or RPE.
- This training is good for damn near anyone hoping to race 800m to ultramarathons, with few tweaks needed.
- Changes to the method aren't discouraged but should be done with careful consideration. For example my target 5k this spring has some hills so I will add in some hill repeats every couple weeks until April.
- Overall, enjoy the process of punching the clock and getting better!
Speaking of biomechanical measurements. It would be interesting to see what, if any, changes result from doing three sub-LT interval sessions per week (plus a longish run), and nothing more intense except for the occasional race. Are the people who are having success with this approach simply improving their running economy at around those paces? Or is it simply a case of not having done enough focused training of the right type to maximize fitness? Both?
For any long(ish) term Stryd users out there who have taken up this approach to training, have there been any measurable changes in your GCT, LSS, RE, etc ?
Probably the biggest contributer to improved running economy is TIME SPENT RUNNING. This plan allows for most folks to maximize the time spent training each week while minimizing injury risk. It's sustainable, compoundable training. That's the biggest driver of economical change, which CANNOT be changed in the short term via gait analysis or coaching cues, contrary to popular belief. Specificity, while important for targeting varying aerobic energy systems, is not as important for running economy as the hours you log over months and years plodding along.
1. Is there anyone out there who has ran a sub 2:40 marathon off NSA (i.e. a 2:39:59)? If so, what was your weekly volume in your build up to doing it? I'm aiming for sub 2:40 (even if it's by 1 second I'd still be delighted). My plan looks like I'll be hitting roughly 80-90 km/week, peaking at roughly 100 km. Not sure if this is going to be sufficient or not. On top of the 7 day running plan I'm also doing roughly the same amount of training on the bike so around 12-13 hours per week, i.e. Monday AM easy run / Monday PM easy bike, Tuesday AM sub-threshold run / Tuesday PM sweet spot bike etc., so doubling 7 days per week. The running is the focus and the bike does not replace a run unless absolutely necessary. The bike is essentially the top-up to try and improve fitness as quickly as possible without the additional strain from double runs. I try to stick to this as best as possible, however with the bike being a top-up I'm not that bothered if I miss a session or replace it with S&C.
2. Dynafish XiaoNian, what a trainer! Used them twice over the weekend and felt great in both circumstances. Saturday was an easy warm-up/cool down and 10x 4 mins sub-threshold / 1 min walking recovery on a track. Pace ranged from 3.51/km down to 3.38/km as the set progressed. The XiaoNian's were fast, peppy, light on foot and super comfortable. They were certainly up to the pace, so much so that my avg. pace for the session was 3.44/km, which was only 2s/km slower than the same workout done 1 week prior in the Do-win PB Pro's at almost the exact same HR per rep and for the overall session. Run 2 was a medium long-run done today. 1H45M at around 5.30/km pace and 136BPM (roughly 73% of MHR). Again, super comfortable, no foam degradation during the run, super grippy in damp/wet conditions. It really is a shoe that can do it all! If Dynafish expand their line and keep knocking out shoes on the same level as the XiaoNian they'll be getting all of my money!
3. From the book there is a great chapter on race pacing, however it's based on 10x 3 mins, 5x 6 mins and 3x 10 mins. My sub-threshold session are 10x4, 6x6 and 4x10. Would you expect the same premise to stand, that the avg. pace of the 10x4 min session would be 94-95% of my 10K race pace, and the avg. pace of my 4x10 session would be 94-95% of my HM race pace, even though the volume per session is roughly 33% more than the book?
Either people are able to sustain a higher VO2, the same VO2 translates into a faster pace, or perhaps some of both. Consistency, load, sustainability, blah, blah, blah are irrelevant in this context.
Won a national championship and set a national record in another sport
Just missed the podium at the world championships in a third
Change anything? Of course not, because it is irrelevant
It's definitely relevant. We have had people from other sports share their knowledge, which is half the reason we are 10k posts in. Even recently we have had a pro cyclist (I'm guessing most know who he is) post here who has some remarkable achievements in the sport, posting some really interesting thoughts. You are more than welcome to do the same and anything useful and constructiive (as said poster did) is often welcome.
1. Is there anyone out there who has ran a sub 2:40 marathon off NSA (i.e. a 2:39:59)? If so, what was your weekly volume in your build up to doing it? I'm aiming for sub 2:40 (even if it's by 1 second I'd still be delighted). My plan looks like I'll be hitting roughly 80-90 km/week, peaking at roughly 100 km. Not sure if this is going to be sufficient or not. On top of the 7 day running plan I'm also doing roughly the same amount of training on the bike so around 12-13 hours per week, i.e. Monday AM easy run / Monday PM easy bike, Tuesday AM sub-threshold run / Tuesday PM sweet spot bike etc., so doubling 7 days per week. The running is the focus and the bike does not replace a run unless absolutely necessary. The bike is essentially the top-up to try and improve fitness as quickly as possible without the additional strain from double runs. I try to stick to this as best as possible, however with the bike being a top-up I'm not that bothered if I miss a session or replace it with S&C.
2. Dynafish XiaoNian, what a trainer! Used them twice over the weekend and felt great in both circumstances. Saturday was an easy warm-up/cool down and 10x 4 mins sub-threshold / 1 min walking recovery on a track. Pace ranged from 3.51/km down to 3.38/km as the set progressed. The XiaoNian's were fast, peppy, light on foot and super comfortable. They were certainly up to the pace, so much so that my avg. pace for the session was 3.44/km, which was only 2s/km slower than the same workout done 1 week prior in the Do-win PB Pro's at almost the exact same HR per rep and for the overall session. Run 2 was a medium long-run done today. 1H45M at around 5.30/km pace and 136BPM (roughly 73% of MHR). Again, super comfortable, no foam degradation during the run, super grippy in damp/wet conditions. It really is a shoe that can do it all! If Dynafish expand their line and keep knocking out shoes on the same level as the XiaoNian they'll be getting all of my money!
3. From the book there is a great chapter on race pacing, however it's based on 10x 3 mins, 5x 6 mins and 3x 10 mins. My sub-threshold session are 10x4, 6x6 and 4x10. Would you expect the same premise to stand, that the avg. pace of the 10x4 min session would be 94-95% of my 10K race pace, and the avg. pace of my 4x10 session would be 94-95% of my HM race pace, even though the volume per session is roughly 33% more than the book?
Tons of people have broken 3. I've seen a good number of them break 2:40. Some have posted here or Strava, or Reddit. The vast majority have not done anything cute with it and have kept the balance that is in the book.
I ran 2:38 and basically copied everything that's there (it's been publicly available really since sirpoc ran 2:24, but luckily the book came out just before and i could make use of thr incredible pacing chapter) and the only thing I missed was the HM tune up. I did 5x4.2k instead of 5x5k as the "big session".
Fwiw it's by far the best I've felt in a marathon build, the best I've felt during the race and the quickest I've ever recovered from a marathon. Had run a bunch of 2:50s and a 2:47 previously, using either pitfz or Hanson.
1. Is there anyone out there who has ran a sub 2:40 marathon off NSA (i.e. a 2:39:59)? If so, what was your weekly volume in your build up to doing it? I'm aiming for sub 2:40 (even if it's by 1 second I'd still be delighted). My plan looks like I'll be hitting roughly 80-90 km/week, peaking at roughly 100 km. Not sure if this is going to be sufficient or not. On top of the 7 day running plan I'm also doing roughly the same amount of training on the bike so around 12-13 hours per week, i.e. Monday AM easy run / Monday PM easy bike, Tuesday AM sub-threshold run / Tuesday PM sweet spot bike etc., so doubling 7 days per week. The running is the focus and the bike does not replace a run unless absolutely necessary. The bike is essentially the top-up to try and improve fitness as quickly as possible without the additional strain from double runs. I try to stick to this as best as possible, however with the bike being a top-up I'm not that bothered if I miss a session or replace it with S&C.
2. Dynafish XiaoNian, what a trainer! Used them twice over the weekend and felt great in both circumstances. Saturday was an easy warm-up/cool down and 10x 4 mins sub-threshold / 1 min walking recovery on a track. Pace ranged from 3.51/km down to 3.38/km as the set progressed. The XiaoNian's were fast, peppy, light on foot and super comfortable. They were certainly up to the pace, so much so that my avg. pace for the session was 3.44/km, which was only 2s/km slower than the same workout done 1 week prior in the Do-win PB Pro's at almost the exact same HR per rep and for the overall session. Run 2 was a medium long-run done today. 1H45M at around 5.30/km pace and 136BPM (roughly 73% of MHR). Again, super comfortable, no foam degradation during the run, super grippy in damp/wet conditions. It really is a shoe that can do it all! If Dynafish expand their line and keep knocking out shoes on the same level as the XiaoNian they'll be getting all of my money!
3. From the book there is a great chapter on race pacing, however it's based on 10x 3 mins, 5x 6 mins and 3x 10 mins. My sub-threshold session are 10x4, 6x6 and 4x10. Would you expect the same premise to stand, that the avg. pace of the 10x4 min session would be 94-95% of my 10K race pace, and the avg. pace of my 4x10 session would be 94-95% of my HM race pace, even though the volume per session is roughly 33% more than the book?
I get everybody is different, but realistically for the time goal you can be doing 30 min of SubT. Idk why so many people bump up to 40 min.. can anybody chime in or can you your reasoning? Not criticizing, purely curious. Who knows if your mileage/plan will be enough, just go out and try it. I’m sure you and many others know, there’s a lot of factors that will impact your time. Seems like mileage/plan should be good tho IF you already had done ~2:45 Mary or equivalent performance in past year
An individual's sporting success has essentially nothing to do with their ability to understand training.
That's a strange comment. You brought it up, as a humble brag. What you have learned from those sports at an elite level, mistakes, training focus, mentality, what it's like to be at the top is highly relevant and could absolutely bring something to the table.
As well of course as how training at an elite level is different to a hobbyist.
That's giving you the benefit of the doubt and hoping you haven't just made it up.
I get everybody is different, but realistically for the time goal you can be doing 30 min of SubT. Idk why so many people bump up to 40 min.. can anybody chime in or can you your reasoning? Not criticizing, purely curious. Who knows if your mileage/plan will be enough, just go out and try it. I’m sure you and many others know, there’s a lot of factors that will impact your time. Seems like mileage/plan should be good tho IF you already had done ~2:45 Mary or equivalent performance in past year
Going to 40 mins seems to be the standard for one of the sessions, to practice stretching it out to the marathon special block. But even sirpoc on his London build was only doing this once a week and ~30 mins the rest of the time. I see a lot of people doing 10x1k at like 4:10/ km and clearly they haven't either read the book so don't understand the method correctly and why they are doing it or they just have absolutely no idea what they are doing.
Who knows, you might be telling the truth, maybe not. Either way, you are getting exactly what you want, attention.
There have been some crazy weird attention seekers on this thread in the past, you aren't quite #1 but certainly in the mix.
Letsrun really does bring out all the weirdos looking to show how smarter they are than who they consider average posters. You tick every box of that as well.
Everytime you post, I roll my eyes and think about what a boring life you must have looking for such self gratification in all places of Letsrun.
Then I curse myself for making this post and wasting 2 minutes of my day replying to you and wishing for the glory days of trolls like lexel.
So elite level (cyclist?) hobby jogger runner. Though I wouldn’t agree it’s irrelevant it only has little relevance to understanding of training and coaching, the bigger relevant is to ensure you are not in a in an echo chamber of opinions.
Why go with the inflammatory username and double down on Stryd so much? much elite athlete I’ve meet or coached are not as arrogant?
I’ve had pretty much every version and they are just as reliable or unreliable as wrist based calculators as it’s just accelerometers and code that is affected my many factors, and it would be nice if the watts or w/kg was consistent between footwear, versions, or conditions. I’ve attempted to pace many race from 5km to ultra using power and found it wanting where 300w is just not valid.
i don’t mind having a theory debating on here, there was many with coggins but you need to layer it out this is suboptimal and attempt blah has achieved X and is substantial. Not I took college kids and gave then vo2max and they got fitter over 6weeks, because you know university only has certain funding and time and I’m not a mouse. sure but could then do it 24 months continuously. Better to be arrogant and say that actually sure do this basic tracking malarkey for whatever 5km to half marathon but was history has shown that increasing to do x weeks of race pace or vo2max nets 1/2% extra on goal race day with minimal risk and this group would start incorporating it, like for the people struggling to improve to run shorter distances for fast paces and slightly less recovery while maintaining the aerobic only principles
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