Modifying the Norwegian approach to lower mileage

I'm not sure who he is, but great result and who knows .. Maybe a sub 2:20 next time?

I shouldn't feed the troll .. But ok ...

It really annoys you that you can only do the talk, while other do the walk, eh?

he’s opposed to idolatry

everything else he agrees with

i love the Russian bot insta down votes

keep em coming!

I'm still surprised people say this isn't a great marathon plan. I've seen people give out advice as if this is fact. When the evidence suggests again that a large amount of people, in the real world, are pbing off this.

I'm nowhere as fast as wigglewaflle (congratulations by the way to him!) but I have ran 8 previous marathons and PBd myself yesterday on this with 2:54. Previous PB was 3:03. Obviously anything can wrong in a marathon, as it's a marathon, even with good training. I actually had a good pitfz build once and I had hit a good 10k and half in the build but fell apart for unknown reasons on race day, so I did go in cautious.

I paced on the safe side, I wanted to make sure I locked in sub 3 and think I left some on the table. Finished really strong for a big negative split.

Followed the plan pretty much as it is in the book, which I started following from the excel sheet someone made. Had previously done 5 months of vanilla with excellent progress.

Felt strong, pacing guide in the book helped more than you can imagine, as did planning for the elements. That was probably worth a few minutes alone. I can emphasise how good the pacing, racing strategy and tapering guide is in the book. If that was the book alone, I'd buy it and felt like I had good value for money.

But the main thing is that the build didn't kill me, and I can see myself back to my normal routine in 2-3 weeks.

If you are on the fence like I was with this method, check your ego in at the door and come in with an open mind. I'm glad I did as it's been a game changer for me. Can't thank sirpoc enough obviously, but everyone else who has contributed to this thread.

The book might just be the best resource a hobby jogger can ever need. Seriously. It's probably at the top of the list I would recommend to semi serious runners.

I know the whole idea of NSM is to limit coaching or the need for it. But I would still like one. I am the kind of person who needs to be told what to do. I really struggled to follow plans myself.

So my question is, as someone who has read the book and bought into this approach as making total sense, would sirpoc be open to coaching in the future? He seems to have worked with some people on an individual basis for success and I would throw my hat into the ring for that.

Dude, just follow a plan. Grow up, become and adult and just follow a plan without someone needed to hold our hands.

Everything you can ever need is listed in this thread, Reddit or Strava and the book. If you need your hand holding on this then there is sadly no hope for you in life never mind running.

You mean the way Wiggle waffle was walking at the end of his mary?

Maybe he's still just "aerobically underdeveloped'?

Back to NSM for you, sir - next!

That isn't what coaching is. You can have a coach and know what the plan is, but they hold you to account or make changes to adapt to the situation in hand. That is coaching and there's still value in it.

I have trained to a very high level and set a huge bar and target a few years ago regarding the hour record. I knew what I needed to do to get there, but having a coach to hold me to account and bounce ideas off was still huge value.

This doesn't even need to be for elite athletes. I've helped coach cyclists at semi elite or even hobby level, sometimes it's just about reassurance and that is also fine and just what people need. I know guys in the pro peloton that for whatever reason know nothing about their own training and probably would make a mess of it have they not had sometime to point them in the right direction, on almost a daily basis.

I think there is some confusion as to what coaching actually is. But it's a lot more than just following a plan.

I'm pretty new to the thread but having read the book you can tell the chap who has written it would make an excellent coach. The key is someone who can communicate. I mentioned last week, I've had coaches over qualified and been useless, or met guys with no coaching qualifications but made fantastic coaches, or vice versa

This is like your typical reddit user you see on the sub. Clueless, and probably needs a helmet to run.

Dude, have you ever run a marathon? Genuine question.

Anyone can blow at any point after 30k. Having run over 20, sometimes there's no rhyme or reason. That's the marathon. You can have done everything and ticked every box and it still comes falling down. At any level.

The dude ran 2:23 as a medium mileage hobby jogger. I don't really know what more people want at this point. He just implroved by 5 and a half minutes when he was already a sub 2:30 guy.

It goes to show that this thread still contains a vast amount of information that may have been glossed over in the book.

Sirpoc recently said he's at the point where he's not too keen on spending any more time on the sport. Maybe you'll still get lucky though. If not, there are many online coaches who will do it for a fee.

Not to dissuade you, but if your issue is lacing up your shoes in the evening when it's dark and raining, maybe find buddies in a running club to motivate each other. Wouldn't it be a bit awks to call your coach at 6:30pm hoping for a speech to get your a*** out the door?

Not saying I'm a perfect example of discipline but find it weird if people want to be good at something yet aren't able putting in the work.

His 1k, 1600, and 3200 repeat findings are a lot higher than I would have expected.

If CS/CV/CP/FTP is faster than your 10k race pace, and if you should do the 1k repeats at 12k-15k effort, then the 1k repeats would be in the mid 90%. If CS/CV/CP/FTP is equivalent to your 10k race pace, then the 1k repeats would be in the high 90%. So I'm curious why his are so high.

Also, if you set the data field on your watch to 3s, 10s, or 30s power, you can smooth out those spikes during the run.

I just realized he might be setting his FTP as his 1 hour race pace. If so, his findings make a lot more sense.

So you're saying that if someone is estimating FTP or similar from say, a shorter effort, you could end up with a way too fast estimate for repeats?

Much faster than HM pace is a no-no for the 1k repeats right, assuming you're doing approx 90 mins worth of intervals per week?

No, not necessarily. I was trying to figure out how he calculated those %FTP numbers from his sub-T workouts.

If FTP is ~10k pace (35 minutes?), then 1k reps @ 15k effort shouldn't be faster, or greater than FTP. But if FTP is 1 hour pace, then that's a touch slower than his 15k race pace but faster than his HM race pace (I'm guessing as I don't know his 2023 performances).

If FTP = 1 hour power, then 1k repeats >= %FTP, 2k repeats ~= %FTP, and 3k repeats <= %FTP is certainly reasonable.

NSM, just as much as it limits coaching, pushes the need for consistency. More often than not, it's ideal to do or work towards running 7 days/week. It takes a monotonous discipline.

Part of having a coach is important, yes, for accountability and insight towards structuring training around your life individually, but this is about as clearly laid out as training philosophy gets.

As for finding a coach worth their salt, you might find a hidden gem out there somewhere. But most probably won't believe in pure NSM and push some form of periodization, or are lacking in some other non-negotiable, like communication skills.

This is coming from someone who is in some running coaching circles and has received confusion or disbelief when talking about this approach. But my results spoke for me when I raced.

Thank you for that post.

Idiots telling others to "grow up" even though coaching (especially involving a new method people are learning about) is yet another reason why LRC gets a bad rep in the general public and in the running world sometimes.