why does David Roche keep banging on about being in sub-4 at altitude shape?

What is Z1 pace

Oh recovery pace. Where/when did he say this?

Sometimes there is value in anonymous discussion. It will be interesting to hear when people go public.

I have to say I don't trust him because of puzzling statements. There's different levels of bad though.

If I run a workout of 8 x 4 minutes hard starting at 4:50 Mile Pace and cutting down by two seconds each repeat, and my rest between each repeat is 1 min at 6 minute mile pace, what is the average pace for the entire workout

ChatGPT said:
Let's break this down step by step.
Workout Breakdown
You have 8 reps of 4 minutes each.
The pace starts at 4:50 per mile and decreases by 2 seconds per rep.
The rest is 1 minute at 6:00 per mile between each rep.
Step 1: Find the Pace for Each Rep
Your reps will be at the following paces:
4:50 (290 sec/mile)
4:48 (288 sec/mile)
4:46 (286 sec/mile)
4:44 (284 sec/mile)
4:42 (282 sec/mile)
4:40 (280 sec/mile)
4:38 (278 sec/mile)
4:36 (276 sec/mile)
Step 2: Calculate Distance for Each Rep
Each rep is 4 minutes long, so the distance covered in each is:
Distance=4Mile Pace in min/mileDistance=Mile Pace in min/mile4Computing for each:
44.8333=0.82744.83334=0.8274 miles
44.8=0.83334.84=0.8333 miles
44.7667=0.83944.76674=0.8394 miles
44.7333=0.84564.73334=0.8456 miles
44.7=0.85184.74=0.8518 miles
44.6667=0.85794.66674=0.8579 miles
44.6333=0.86424.63334=0.8642 miles
44.6=0.86964.64=0.8696 miles
Summing these up:
Total Hard Distance=6.7892 milesTotal Hard Distance=6.7892 milesStep 3: Calculate Distance for Rests
Each rest is 1 minute at 6:00/mile pace, so:
Distance per rest=16=0.1667 milesDistance per rest=61=0.1667 milesSince there are 7 rests, the total rest distance is:
0.1667×7=1.1667 miles0.1667×7=1.1667 milesStep 4: Compute Total Distance and Time
Total Distance = 6.7892+1.1667=7.95596.7892+1.1667=7.9559 miles
Total Time = (8×4)+(7×1)=39(8×4)+(7×1)=39 minutes
Step 5: Compute Average Pace
Average Pace=Total TimeTotal Distance=397.9559=4.90 min/mile=4:54min/mileAverage Pace=Total DistanceTotal Time=7.955939=4.90 min/mile=4:54min/mileFinal Answer

The average pace for the entire workout is approximately 4:54 per mile.

So a guy with a 31:30 sea level road 10k PR just ran a workout at altitude averaging 4:54 per mile for 8 miles? Yeah, I doubt that

He mentioned it on his latest patreon episode. I’ve been a fan for awhile but after reading some comments in this thread I’ve been getting more skeptical. He seems to have changed a lot ever since Leadville, it’s almost like a different podcast now.

Strava calculate's Conner Mantz's and Clayton Young's Z1 paces at > 6:08 & > 6:17 min/miles, respectively. I suppose the two best current American marathoners ain't go sh!t on David Roche and his Z1 paces.

Jared Ward finished 14th last year in the Elite field at Bolder Boulder with a 32:05, or a 5:09 mile pace. Guess David Roche could have smoked Jared had he only rolled out of bed, walked across town to the race, and fired up his treadmill next to actual pros.

You guys get triggered when anyone says this, but this is the most "rent free" post I've seen on this thread, and that's saying something.

Apparently this doofus loathes Roche and think he's a liar (!), but then lapped up what was, what, a 75-90 min podcast released this week then rushed to LRC to post all the ways he hated it?

Rent-free, dude. Get a life.

Believe him or not, but he has said a bunch of times that his Z2 pace is sub-5:30. Not Z1.

He lies about his pace and power zones. He did a zwift race all out at a specific power than not long after claimed his zone 2 power only 10 or so watts less. There’s a post in this thread about it.

Cool observation!

nope.

And he never will

It's not that people are 'triggered' by the term 'rent-free', it's just so overused and cliched by this point that it's baffling that you are using it without any hint of irony. For most people it's as culturally relevant as 'schwing'.

"Jeez, I was just cycling and that car knocked me over and then drove off."
You, grinning: "Pah, that driver is living in your head rent-free my friend...rent-free." *rubs chin as if you've just said something profound*

"There are many definitions of living rent-free, but the one most commonly used on LetsRun is the least economically sound. In this model, the 'landlord'—David Roche—incurs no cost beyond his existence, while the 'renters' pay through time, energy, and exhaustive analysis of the SWAP podcast.

It’s a fascinating system. The phrase I don’t care about David Roche is best expressed through a 1,000-word post dissecting his latest statements. If he responds, it’s proof of his insecurity. If he stays silent, that’s evidence of his guilt. To move on from Roche is to explain, at length, why one is moving on from Roche.

As John Ashbery might have put it:

At first, it was not important, and then it was less so,
until, at last, the nothingness of its significance required urgent discussion.

At its core, 'rent-free' is just a way of saying I can’t stop thinking about this, and it bothers me that I can’t stop thinking about this. And what could be more human than that?"

Quite ironic that I post specifically about the overused, corny term 'rent-free' without mentioning David Roche at all (not even in the example) and yet you just can't help yourself by replying with a defense of David, for an imagined attack that didn't even take place. Curious, isn't it?

Lol brilliant

"It’s funny—when we discussed rent-free as a concept, we were talking about the thread as a whole, the way certain names and ideas keep reappearing in the collective consciousness. And yet, here you are, assuming it was a direct reply to you.

This is the forum equivalent of standing in a crowd, hearing someone say 'I hate when people walk too slow,' and indignantly responding, 'Actually, I have a knee injury!' No one was talking about you, mate. But now that you’ve volunteered yourself as Exhibit A… well, curious, isn’t it?"

Seriously. He supposedly average 4:54 pace at 5,000 feet for an 8 mile workout that includes his rest intervals. Again, this is a workout that Joe Klecker might be able to do. Not 31:30 10k runner David Roche