Yeah I'm sure when he got tested last time the same thing happened and he commented that it was way faster than his threshold paces. His LT1 and LT2 are probably much lower than 2mmol and 4mmol (mine certainly are). If a lab is using population averages (2mmol and 4mmol) and not fitting the curve for the individual, then it's meaningless.
Can someone explain why Fenton is doing these tests?
I haven't watched the video but I'd imagine it does make reasonably good content. Most people don't understand what a lactate test measures, why you'd do it and what the limitations are. So to his audience, it looks like he's at the cutting edge of science and training, bringing elite level science and testing to a wider amateur audience.
Can someone explain why Fenton is doing these tests?
Because they offered it to him for free. Fenton is a tragic case really, such little actual potential for success in life, the weird looking little barista has no real self worth compass, so every freebie is gobbled up with glee and now, more sadly, validation. We live in interesting times.
Is Cole still under coach Ben Connor? Ben is setting ridiculously high mileage for Cole if so, 26 miles in total today after a long run yesterday :o and 158 miles last week.
I know Cole does still have a proper job but he clearly has the time, motivation and talent to do well in the marathon, so this sort of mileage is pretty normal for people meeting that criteria. For a 3:30 marathoner it would be overkill, but realistically pretty much all of the elite guys will be doing this
Yep, its high in a vacuum but it's on the high end of "normal" for someone running in the two teens. He also seems to be keeping the intensity well under control. The only thing which concerns me is that he has ramped back up VERY quickly, but London is only getting closer..
I'd say on the VERY high end of 'normal' for someone running around 2:15. Seen plenty of cases of guys running similar or even faster off max 100mpw. I know its all relative to the individual but if he's not careful it'll be another case of RED-S/burnout/lack of motivation once London is done...
I'd say on the VERY high end of 'normal' for someone running around 2:15. Seen plenty of cases of guys running similar or even faster off max 100mpw. I know its all relative to the individual but if he's not careful it'll be another case of RED-S/burnout/lack of motivation once London is done...
Burnout/lack of motivation after a marathon block is fairly normal for anyone who's trained hard at a marathon.
Is Cole still under coach Ben Connor? Ben is setting ridiculously high mileage for Cole if so, 26 miles in total today after a long run yesterday :o and 158 miles last week.
I know Cole does still have a proper job but he clearly has the time, motivation and talent to do well in the marathon, so this sort of mileage is pretty normal for people meeting that criteria. For a 3:30 marathoner it would be overkill, but realistically pretty much all of the elite guys will be doing this
I can't imagine for one moment that Ben Connor is stipulating 150 mile weeks! It's just Gibbo ignoring his coach in the same way Bester ignores Neil Danby.
Is Cole still under coach Ben Connor? Ben is setting ridiculously high mileage for Cole if so, 26 miles in total today after a long run yesterday :o and 158 miles last week.
I know Cole does still have a proper job but he clearly has the time, motivation and talent to do well in the marathon, so this sort of mileage is pretty normal for people meeting that criteria. For a 3:30 marathoner it would be overkill, but realistically pretty much all of the elite guys will be doing this
His mileage the last 4/5 weeks is only slightly less than RanToJapans (like 220k -250k average rather than 240-260k average) whose training is seen as extreme and pretty unusual..
Fenton's coach (Victor Smangs) was on The Marathon Podcast this week and mentioned how he had to figure out where his own LT1/LT2 numbers should be, as his are relatively low.
Think he was keeping his morning intervals workout around 1.3-1.6 and then pushing a fair bit harder for the evening intervals workout, up to 3.0.
He said if he aimed at 2.5 and 3.5 that some runners work to, he would have been completely cooked.
Seeing this as further proof of my theory that Smangs either isn't actually coaching Fenton and it's all just a marketing ploy, or that Fenton is just uncoachable and whatever Smangs tells him goes in one ear and out the other.
Talking of our man Fenton in his latest video his lab test places LT1 at 3:14/km and LT2 at 2:56/km. Surely complete nonsense as this fits with 2:11-2:13 marathon fitness?! Looks like the results use fixed 2mmol and 4mmol lactate for the thresholds which is bad science in my books.
Fenton's coach (Victor Smangs) was on The Marathon Podcast this week and mentioned how he had to figure out where his own LT1/LT2 numbers should be, as his are relatively low.
Think he was keeping his morning intervals workout around 1.3-1.6 and then pushing a fair bit harder for the evening intervals workout, up to 3.0.
He said if he aimed at 2.5 and 3.5 that some runners work to, he would have been completely cooked.
I'll analyze his training and workouts on here if someone posts them and gives more context?
So is his marathon PR still 2:23 and his half marathon is at 1:06:xx? Was that 14:38 for 5km in a parkrun or a real IAAF cert race (track etc)? I can't seem to find a good IAAF profile/progression for Ben.
Honestly as I transition as a "athlete-coach-influencer-content creator" I think it would be a great deal to get some lactate testing for "free". However, in my limited experience with it...there seems to be quite a bit of genetic variation within the constraints of what "2.0 or 4.0mmol" actually mean for people in terms of then what their LT1 vs. LT2 actually are...
A Running Economy test with bouts at say 3:40/km down to 3:00/km (3:30, 3:20. 3:10,) or even 2:50//km would be more telling. Combine that with a Vo2max reading. At the end of the day we need to optimize Running Economy...
In terms of mileage and what guys like "Run to Japan" are doing with a frequent marathon race schedule it reminds me of Yuki Kawauchi style. Although i don't think Yuki really ran that high mileage because he was also working an office job?
Obviously there is a trade-off with mileage vs injury risk vs balancing relative intensity. When I first joined Hansons way back in 2009 guys like Brian Sell (2:10) and Nick Arciniaga (2:11) and Mike Morgan (2:14) were busting 160-170 miles a week with "Easy Days" around 6:00/min per mile and workout days often at well under sub 5:00/min per mile (for long workouts like 3 x 3 miles).
I ran my best times off of 120 miles per week (consistent average for several months though). When I tried 140 miles per week it made me slower. We also ran some really hard Long Runs (1:50 for 20-miles or 32km) and "The Simulator of 16-miles at Goal MP" got out of control some years. No doubt the optimal "high mileage ceiling" depends on the runner, their genetics, and their background. But there's a reason a lot of pros top up at say 200km-220km (124-136 miles) per week instead of more all the time.
Yes I wasn't questioning Coles training as it's clearly working for him. Just questioning whether he was still being coached as I cannot not imagine Ben Connor setting 150 mile plus weeks when he probably isn't running these numbers himself...
The latest FilmMyRun video is erm interesting. Basically him walking round the national running show filming people.
The clip of him with Ben Parkes and his partner is amusing. Ben looks utterly bemused, borderline fed up of him.
Just such a strange thing to do. How do people not feel incredibly awkward and embarrassed walking around in a public setting talking to a camera so loudly.
Good little Aubrey cameo too. Assuming his video is yet to come.
Fenton's coach (Victor Smangs) was on The Marathon Podcast this week and mentioned how he had to figure out where his own LT1/LT2 numbers should be, as his are relatively low.
Think he was keeping his morning intervals workout around 1.3-1.6 and then pushing a fair bit harder for the evening intervals workout, up to 3.0.
He said if he aimed at 2.5 and 3.5 that some runners work to, he would have been completely cooked.
I'll analyze his training and workouts on here if someone posts them and gives more context?
So is his marathon PR still 2:23 and his half marathon is at 1:06:xx? Was that 14:38 for 5km in a parkrun or a real IAAF cert race (track etc)? I can't seem to find a good IAAF profile/progression for Ben.
Honestly as I transition as a "athlete-coach-influencer-content creator" I think it would be a great deal to get some lactate testing for "free". However, in my limited experience with it...there seems to be quite a bit of genetic variation within the constraints of what "2.0 or 4.0mmol" actually mean for people in terms of then what their LT1 vs. LT2 actually are...
A Running Economy test with bouts at say 3:40/km down to 3:00/km (3:30, 3:20. 3:10,) or even 2:50//km would be more telling. Combine that with a Vo2max reading. At the end of the day we need to optimize Running Economy...
In terms of mileage and what guys like "Run to Japan" are doing with a frequent marathon race schedule it reminds me of Yuki Kawauchi style. Although i don't think Yuki really ran that high mileage because he was also working an office job?
Obviously there is a trade-off with mileage vs injury risk vs balancing relative intensity. When I first joined Hansons way back in 2009 guys like Brian Sell (2:10) and Nick Arciniaga (2:11) and Mike Morgan (2:14) were busting 160-170 miles a week with "Easy Days" around 6:00/min per mile and workout days often at well under sub 5:00/min per mile (for long workouts like 3 x 3 miles).
I ran my best times off of 120 miles per week (consistent average for several months though). When I tried 140 miles per week it made me slower. We also ran some really hard Long Runs (1:50 for 20-miles or 32km) and "The Simulator of 16-miles at Goal MP" got out of control some years. No doubt the optimal "high mileage ceiling" depends on the runner, their genetics, and their background. But there's a reason a lot of pros top up at say 200km-220km (124-136 miles) per week instead of more all the time.
The 14:38 was the Battersea Park influencer palooza course. It's a bizarre hybrid of a Park Run and a track race. Three loops, one lap on the track in each loop, then back out onto the paved and winding paths of the park. In a track 5k, guessing Ben would be around 14:20. When he's in big marathons, he generally runs with the lead women. I guess we know now that if Rojo were 25 today, he'd be a vlogger and Let's Run would be a YouTube Channel.
Can someone explain why Fenton is doing these tests?
Because they offered it to him for free. Fenton is a tragic case really, such little actual potential for success in life, the weird looking little barista has no real self worth compass, so every freebie is gobbled up with glee and now, more sadly, validation. We live in interesting times.
These kind of posts have no place in this thread and are more akin to blogsnark/guru gossip/tattle or whatever your choice is. Be better.
Nick Bester is really struggling at the moment, struggling to hit the paces in his training, great honest content, and relatable
His insistence that he was fine despite constantly telling us his metrics showed him in an absolute hole and he's been struggling with training pre and post Kenya seems silly now imo.
Fairly clear he's buried himself, with regular illness, struggles to train, and indicators that he's struggling from his recovery stats (however much you trust these or not they seem part of the picture). Another one to go and discuss with his coach to see if they can salvage the block with a few weeks left
Thoughts on Hannah Rose Irwin? She keeps popping up in my recommendations. Seems like a legitimately good runner but my god she looks, acts and sounds like a literal child. Worse than Allie O/Philly Bowden.
Can someone explain why Fenton is doing these tests?
He seems to think it's good content. However, he does not have the ability to add any value by articulating what the tests mean and what value they add to his training.
I am sure micro-optimisations like this have their place if you are an Olympic track athlete, where seconds count and environmental conditions can be accounted for.
However, Fenton is using it to get readings after trotting around the edge of a road in Essex.
Because they validate training paces . It's pretty simple stuff tbh.
The guy gets a hard time here from arm chair experts , some of whom geek out on this stuff and other know less than Ben. The reality is all he needs it for it to dial in pacing and make sure he's in the right area on workouts...that's literally it
I know Olympic track athletes who haven't a clue how these tests work or the science, but they do know how to dial in pacing by it and their coaches are the brains. One particular European medalist would tell you they just do what they're told to do and it works. They get tested all the time.
No harm getting a free lab test , if take it. I think it's fair game debating training methods and general content, but badgering him on this probably a bit naive to what other athletes actually know. They aren't all Jacob or Norwegian .