50+ Masters Training and Racing Open Forum

My condolences socal, sorry to hear about your loss.

cush -- Sorry to hear about your dad's passing. Lost both my parents years ago, but they are never far from my thoughts. My mother-in-law died unexpectedly last month, and my wife is still struggling with the emotions. Be well.

socal cush, please accept my heartfelt condolences. It is never easy to lose a loved one.

I'm really sorry about your Dad. will be thinking of you and your family

--Dave

cush, I'm very sorry to hear the news. My condolences. I couldn't make it tonight but could do a shakeout run tomorrow PM or a workout (reps at 6:00 pace or so) maybe early Thursday (like at 7). Thursday PM for a short run could work too.

rws_58@yahoo.com

Very sorry for your loss, Cush. My deepest condolences to you and your family.

Cush, sorry for your loss, my Dad was THE major influence in my love of sport and involvement in it. I miss him dearly and he passed away in 1985. With the passage of time, I can talk about him and what he means to me without balling my eyes out, and so feel good about sharing something of his nature/attitude. You, too, can honor him by all you say and do in the future.

This talk of preparing for the mile is good. My wife and I have our KCCC 1 mile track race in 13 days, so only one more track session, hopefully this Sunday. I actually find it intimidating to race it, since it's such a fine line between too hard and too easy. Last year, I could not "get going" until after about 800. So I feel I gave up about 8-12 seconds that way. I am thinking of running some 200's or 300's and then one 800 or a 1000 this Sunday, as hard as I can, so that I don't feel so intimidated to push hard from the starting gun. Does that make any sense? My wife is good at going after it from the start, I'm more of a slow starter and yet I feel I have a lot left, even with the fatigue, at the finish.

Two years ago, ran about 7:20, last year 7:32. My 4 x 400 last Sunday averaged 1:55 with the last one in 1:50, clearly I have not been keeping my speed up. Call me insecure!

Charlie wrote:

2 workouts that include 1200s at 4:18 separated by 9 days with the 2nd one 9 days prior to the race.

Go out too fast then slow down as needed this will teach you how not to go out during the race.

OK, Charlie, 16 days out I ran this:

400m in about 80 seconds; 5 min recovery;

1200 in 4:15.5 (81.3, 86.6, 87.6).

I could claim some clever motive for that opening single 400, but truth is I saw that I had mis-started my watch, so bagged the attempt and started over ...

Mike Lundgren wrote:

Last year, I could not "get going" until after about 800. So I feel I gave up about 8-12 seconds that way. I am thinking of running some 200's or 300's and then one 800 or a 1000 this Sunday, as hard as I can, so that I don't feel so intimidated to push hard from the starting gun. Does that make any sense?

Mike, I'm glad to hear you say this. For me, running 5Ks no matter how warm I get in the prerace, I just can't get firing on all cylinders until mile 2. I've tried to compensate by running close to race pace in mile 1, you know, prime the pump -- uh uh. My body ain't fooled by that, it fatigues faster. So on Memorial Day I'm going to try something nutty, doing mile 1 in race pace + 10. Maybe even 15. Just to see if I make it all up at the end!

Allen1959 wrote:

Charlie wrote:

2 workouts that include 1200s at 4:18 separated by 9 days with the 2nd one 9 days prior to the race.

Go out too fast then slow down as needed this will teach you how not to go out during the race.

OK, Charlie, 16 days out I ran this:

400m in about 80 seconds; 5 min recovery;

1200 in 4:15.5 (81.3, 86.6, 87.6).

I could claim some clever motive for that opening single 400, but truth is I saw that I had mis-started my watch, so bagged the attempt and started over ...

Nice job Allen that was about perfect average 85.167 for a nice 5:42.66.

I left out some detail on effort but it looks like you did it about right.

You might not need a 2nd one to get under 5:45.

btw that opening 400 miss fire worked out !

Hey Allen,

I dug this out of my log from 2017

Wednesday June 7th 1200 : 82 86 86. 4:14 projects to 5:17.50 for 1500 Weight 147.4

Wind 10mph 40.74 40.97 43.29 42.69 44.59 41.68

Warmup 400 jog 2 x 100 19 19 1 x 200 40

Felt a bit tired but wanting to run second lap was deflating but it was easy to just keep going as my endurance is much better but my biomechanics were awkward so could be too much tread mill. All out I probably could have run 4:08 maybe 5:10 for the full 1500.

Charlie wrote:

Wednesday June 7th 1200 : 82 86 86. 4:14 projects to 5:17.50 for 1500.

So similar to what I ran the other day. What did you end up running for the mile/1500 after that workout? I am amazed you could get right into the fast paces after only a 400-meter warmup. I don't dare to even do strides until after at least a mile or two of easy jogging.

Do not know because I skipped the 1500 I was targeting as the temp was >90 with wind.

Probably 5:35 mile shape 4:14 just a guess

However.....

A month before.....

Ran 5:51 2 weeks after a 4:28 1200 TT:

With 400 to go I was at 4:28 so I closed in 83 with the last 200 in 39 .

Log entry from april 2017:

Tuesday April 11 1200 : 82 93 91. 4:27low Weight 150.8!

First lap felt easy as I was wanting to hit 85 so I slowed a bit but not much and whamo ninety ef ing three 2:55 wanted to at least run under 90 for the last lap and was working pretty hard but not today 91. Speed is now ahead of endurance. This was a decent gain from the 4:29 on March 19th 2 seconds faster and less effort but not as good as expected. I really thought 4:20 was going to happen today but feel like it will next time.

Also I probably hiked for an hour just prior to running. And I do a bunch of Dynamic warmup stuff .

The 1200 besides helping with too fast feedback also helps calibrates even pace so the last lap ends up being the fastest one which is how I like to roll;)

Today I did 5 yasso 800 meters, averaging 3:38, and not extremely tired at the end, but a good workout, still disappointed.

Because a year ago off a lot less training I did 3.38 also, it was only three intervals, and I was maybe a bit more worn out (intervalpulse averaging 2 more beats), but this is not the only thing I get annoyed about, I find it extremely hard to lower my threshold speed or 5 k time trial time, while I can take a huge amount more of training and run faster for a longer time than a year or two ago, so my question:

Does my Vo2max "agelimit" inhibit my pace in the "shorter" distances (up to lets say 10 k). I am soon 58 years and have only trained a bit more serious for two years. Speed is not a limit, I can run 29 seconds for a 200 m.

SprintTriathlon wrote:

Today I did 5 yasso 800 meters, averaging 3:38, and not extremely tired at the end, but a good workout, still disappointed.

Because a year ago off a lot less training I did 3.38 also, it was only three intervals, and I was maybe a bit more worn out (intervalpulse averaging 2 more beats), but this is not the only thing I get annoyed about, I find it extremely hard to lower my threshold speed or 5 k time trial time, while I can take a huge amount more of training and run faster for a longer time than a year or two ago, so my question:

Does my Vo2max "agelimit" inhibit my pace in the "shorter" distances (up to lets say 10 k). I am soon 58 years and have only trained a bit more serious for two years. Speed is not a limit, I can run 29 seconds for a 200 m.

What is your training volume (total hours/week if you are doing tri training and miles per week running)?

No age limit for cardio/well of course there is some, but that's a pretty wide gap between your 200 and 800 reps. e.g., I'd be pressed to break 33 sec for 200 but can hold 6:00 pace or under for a long time.

If you want to improve your endurance then work on training volume (miles running), consistent threshold workouts, and some training at 5K to 10K pace in that order of priority. And yes your time running (2 years) is a limiting factor.

Coyote Montane wrote:

[quote]SprintTriathlon wrote:

What is your training volume (total hours/week if you are doing tri training and miles per week running)?

No age limit for cardio/well of course there is some, but that's a pretty wide gap between your 200 and 800 reps. e.g., I'd be pressed to break 33 sec for 200 but can hold 6:00 pace or under for a long time.

If you want to improve your endurance then work on training volume (miles running), consistent threshold workouts, and some training at 5K to 10K pace in that order of priority. And yes your time running (2 years) is a limiting factor.

I use trainingpeaks to keep track of my training, I am now at 75 CTL (chronic training load), this is from 40 miles of running, the same miles biking, some swimming and some hiking, but I only got to these numbers the last month, three months ago it was half of that, so I might have a "delay" in progress, also I often do short hill repeats and strides, and do a lot of slow running, then I run to the barn at 88 % of max heart rate, yet maybe my problem is that I have focused too much on the slow side (while keeping the fast intact), but not run a lot of medium to fast pace; that is threshold or intervals.

I have no problem increasing volume by the way, I do that constantly, pulling off if there is a niggle, then push if not, so I guess I have come to a point where I can push the speeds and intesities a bit. I never compete, I will start doing that in 2020, when I am 60, so more the reason to push hard at training sometimes.

Coyote Montane wrote:

...

If you want to improve your endurance then work on training volume (miles running), consistent threshold workouts, and some training at 5K to 10K pace in that order of priority. And yes your time running (2 years) is a limiting factor.

My older son was a biochem major with an emphasis on respiratory physiology, and a 3:55 1500, 9:10 steeple guy in college. ( I was a 51 second 440 guy in college, so what do I know about distance training?) We have had lots of training discussions about training for 5K and up. From my now close to 50 years of training experience and his 20+ years now, we both agree that volume and threshold work are the foundation and key to good distance fitness.

old guy II wrote:

we both agree that volume and threshold work are the foundation and key to good distance fitness.

And I wonder, or, I have interpreted, for the best result, go a bit under your threshold, then touch it and sometimes go a bit over, but baseline = threshold minus 1-3 bpm?