50+ Masters Training and Racing Open Forum

Charlie wrote:

Well we could start a new thread with the first post containing a link back to the first 500 pages:

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=4064465&page=500

Then there was the totally inescapable pop up ad — actually, calling it a pop up does a dis-service to actual pop up ads, which are polite by comparison – that was served to me twice this morning while trying to read this thread! Honestly, if they can’t make money without those kind of adds maybe they should just sell the board…

Rtype wrote:

This brings up an interesting conundrum. I don’t know if anyone else does this but I have certain thresholds that I must meet before I’ll race.

I don't have any particular time trial or workout performance prerequisites for racing, but if I am significantly slower than recent memory, I am pretty reluctant to toe the line.

Last year I was very happy with running high-19s for a 5K because I hadn't broken 20 in a dozen years. But after improving to high 18s, it was really difficult to get excited about racing recently, knowing I am now only in mid-19 shape. Kind of a weird nonsensical mindset.

Me three I always detested the lackadaisical runner. I would never race unless I was fit and biting at the bit. Just ran my third race where neither were true. Have I become a lakadaisical runner?

A 32 year old Ikangaa said "The will to win means nothing without the will to prepare."

Wonder what a 60 year old Ikangaa would say?

Somehow toeing the line unprepared to run my best still seems sacrilegious.

Are we not worthy to toe the line if not in our prime?

I suddenly stopped bent over and put my hand to my neck as I crested the steep hill to finish my hard run yesterday. A nice lady hiker coming the other way yelled "ARE YOU OK?" I glanced toward her and waved my free hand as I continued to count the beats of my pulsing heart. Yeah I am ok and I will race even though I am not as fast or as fit or as light as I once was cause I still love putting it all out there.

The results mean something to me but it turns out putting forth the effort no matter what my shape matters most.

Unlike many others, I'll go do a race no matter how badly out of shape I think I am, as long as I think I'm healthy. I've never minded posting slow times while racing myself into shape. Once I toe the line I run as hard as I can, except on rare occasions when high temperatures make that seem foolhardly. But I'll often go to the starting line with very poor preparation. I just love running and racing, and while I certainly enjoy racing well more than racing poorly, I'd rather race poorly than not at all.

Even when I was young and reasonably fast, I didn't take running too seriously and I almost always lost close races because I just didn't want it badly enough. This is certainly an inappropriate attitude for a professional athlete. But I'm not one, and never have been. Running is neither a job nor a matter of life and death. It's recreation, and I try to treat it accordingly.

This is how I feel too - I don't take running that seriously and really don't have that killer instinct to obsess over the minutiae of training and put in that extra worth to get that extra percent. But I like showing up and running races and trying to improve. I'll never be top 3 in an age group, but it's about having fun.

I do the best that I can in races, but sometimes circumstances warrant just finishing to fight another day.

Having said that, I ran a race on Sunday and improved by 11 mins over 12km on running less and swimming more.

Apologies for my tardy report for last week. There were a few minor glitches this past week. On Tuesday's run my lower right hammy tightened up ever so slightly about 40' in. I headed for home alternating walking and jogging. Since then, I've had not further problems in that area. On the other hand, my seemingly ever present right calf tightness resurfaced. I'm blaming golf for this as it always seems to show up in my next run after a round. I think I'll avoid golf this week. Also had some rare (for me) sinus headaches this week. I think I've finally rid myself of that issue.

While reminiscing on a recent jog, I realized that it was 50 years ago this spring that I first went out for the school track team and began my running "career." I took a year or two off when my collegiate competitive period ended, but otherwise it's been a pretty steady run (ha ha). Let's see how the next 50 turn out.

Sun: 53' jog, body wt ex

Mon: 2 mi walk w/ the bride

Tues: 48' jog (hammy issue); golf, 97

Wed: off

Thu: 2 mi walk w/ the bride

Fri: 52' jog, body wt ex

Sat: off

Sun: 2 mi walk w/ the bride

Mon: 52' jog, body wt ex

Heading out of town for a few days, so there won't be much to report. I'll post again in June.

Best to all.

Charlie, I spotted a 1-mile track race on one of the local calendars. Friday evening June 8. Masters "elite" heat for those expecting sub-6. Thinking I might give it a go. I will need to rewrite my training schedule a bit. I slogged through a 19-mile long run this morning and am definitely NOT feeling like a miler at the moment!

What advice would you give to an almost-59-year-old with ongoing knee and insertional achilles issues, three weeks out from a one mile track race? Keeping in mind a 10K race in six weeks and Goal Race 15K in 11 weeks?

Lets say 4:45 which is roughly 22 43 86 2:52 4:18

Since you have already done workouts indicating 2:52 is in your current wheel house you do not need to work on speed.

Your LT is pretty solid and your vo2max is good so....

2 workouts that include 1200s at 4:18 seperated by 9 days with the 2nd one 9 days prior to the race.

Go out too fast then slow down as needed this will teach you how not to go out during the race.

Sounds crazy but it works.

Race based upon the second 1200 projected time for the whole mile.

Here is my warmup 10 minutes prior to the start. After warming up do a 100 pretend you are starting the race run honest then walk 100 .Do a 200 same thing check the 100 split if the second 100 of the 200 is slower or felt harder you need to slow down if faster speed up. Walk 100 and do this for 300 . Your system will be primed ready to run fast

This is an interesting topic. I usually race as long as I am healthy. The only exception is marathon. I have pulled out of a marathon twice simply because I was not prepared. I once raced five weeks after hamstring strain, and had a 16min positive split. That was enough of a lesson. I do race 5k to half sometimes underprepared. I get beaten by people who I can normally beat easily. But the competition is fun no matter what level I am at. Maybe it's because I have never been fast.

M: off.

T: 7 miles.

W: 7 miles.

R: off.

F: 7 miles.

SA: 7 miles.

SU: 11.1 miles.

This is week #3 of my post marathon recovery, and I managed to run five times as I had planned. A few minutes into my Sunday run, it started raining, and it turned into thunderstorm for the next 20-25 minutes. That reminded me of this year's Boston.

Once the rain went up, I still had to negotiate all the water puddles, and it felt like I was in a Steeple race. The water finally receded near the end of my run, but my feet still felt heavy with wet shoes and socks. But the good thing was that the rain cooled down the temperature significantly. With all the problems, it was still easier than running in the heat.

Charlie wrote:

2 workouts that include 1200s at 4:18 separated by 9 days with the 2nd one 9 days prior to the race.

Go out too fast then slow down as needed this will teach you how not to go out during the race.

Sounds crazy but it works.

Race based upon the second 1200 projected time for the whole mile.

Thanks, Charlie! I like it. Like the warmup, too, but with multiple races going on all evening, I would either need to do it an hour or more in advance, or just approximate it without getting time/pace feedback. Or both.

Allen1959 wrote:

Thanks, Charlie! I like it. Like the warmup, too, but with multiple races going on all evening, I would either need to do it an hour or more in advance, or just approximate it without getting time/pace feedback. Or both.

while preparing for a mile, a simple routine of strides can help as well, especially if your overall training is geared towards longer races. on your non-quality days, doing 10x100 after your run, 2 easy/1 good, can be an effective dose of speed. make the good ones count, though, and make the easy ones easy. i've also found 3x150 buildups on the track equally effective: starting at the top of the turn, the first 50 is a slow jog; you accelerate out of the turn into the middle 50 which is meant to be at approximately mile race pace; the last 50 at mid-homestretch to finish line is all-out; afterwards, walk back to the same start so you get a relatively full recovery. so, if you have 4-5 non-quality days/week, i would choose one of the above routines and figure out which feels best...

Are you turning around and walking back 150m, or going around the track for 250m recovery? (I get that the point is full recovery, but there's a bit of psychological magic in doing something similar to the way fast runners do it!). Thanks.

Allen1959 wrote:

What advice would you give to an almost-59-year-old with ongoing knee and insertional achilles issues, three weeks out from a one mile track race? Keeping in mind a 10K race in six weeks and Goal Race 15K in 11 weeks?

It is osteoarthritis of the knee by chance? If it is, it can be bad news bears as they say. I'm close to your age and have moderate-severe OA in an ankle and moderate OA in a hip. Man...every run is a survival effort and will I be able to walk without a limp the next day is the question. I think most musculoskeletal injuries can be rehabilitated to a certain degree but OA doesn't improve with more wear & tear as we age. I can see why the joint replacement business is so lucrative with the aging population.

We have some good mid-d runners here, so this at the perspective of an aging distance runner who does fairly light speed work and only occasionally drops down for the mile/1500.

Allen I do some mile paced training through most of the year, with the exception being recovery periods and the final month or so before a marathon. So just getting back into some weekly work. If I have no mile/1500 races in mind (the norm, last week was 1st real race in 4 years!) I'll start with a set of pick ups every week to get my legs and then progress to a short set of 200s, 300s, or 400s (more often a timed equivalent in a fartlek workout). Usually just about 800 m to 2K of faster running in a given workout, about once a week to 10 days.

If I have something like a race or time trial to work for, I kind of do a build up over a number of weeks. So it might start with some 300s and a 600, then next one is a mix of 200s-400s and and 800, then 1000, and about a week to 10 days out from my race a 1200 in race flats at race pace. If I can hold that in a solo effort, then I'm usually confident that I can go the full distance at that pace in spikes.

So in your case you might start with an 800 or a couple 600s and work to the 1200. Three weeks isn't much time to prep, but you can make a little bit of headway between now and then.

Per yesteday's question/discussion. I'll do the occasional race as a workout, either as a long tempo, or V02, or speed. I'd rather do a 5K road race than 3 miles at or bit under race pace.

Will do 6 or 7 bigger races in a year, where I've cut back a little to a lot in training/and if it's longer like a half or full marathon plan on recovery for as long as it takes. But will do a number of lesser races as workouts/tune ups or just something to do on a weekend.

Arthritic Old Runner wrote:

It is osteoarthritis of the knee by chance?

I believe it's just "runner's knee," as it is improving with the conventional treatment of strengthening and stretching. But, I have sympathy for your situation. What are your options, at this point? Meanwhile for me, the insertional achilles pain is scarier, as I see amkelley sidelined with a similar problem. For now, occasional eccentric heel drops seem to be managing it.

socal cush: Thanks for the input. I reintroduced strides a few weeks ago. About when I got back to running workouts again. After weeks of nothing but slow slogging, it really helped.

My training last summer/fall was derailed by the knee pain, but with some bicycling and ibuprofen I was able to maintain enough fitness for a 3:07:23 marathon on October 1st. That was followed by three months off, which didn't help the knees at all. The only relief came when I dedicated time at the gym beginning in January.

Since then, I have gradually added volume and, more recently, intensity. Below is an overview of the 19-week build (V=VO2max, L=Lactate threshold):

Week total - Longest run - Workouts

06.0 - 03.0 - (3-mi time trial @ 27:01)

08.0 - 04.0

21.0 - 06.0

23.8 - 06.9

28.6 - 07.7

30.6 - 08.0

30.2 - 12.0

41.2 - 13.5

11.9 - 06.9 (planned stepback)

43.0 - 12.2

50.8 - 16.6

53.1 - 16.9

36.3 - 16.9

47.6 - 16.6 - (V - 5x800m)

44.7 - 12.1 - (T- 3x1mi) (V- 5x800m)

48.6 - 16.6 - (T- 3x1.5mi)

53.7 - 16.6 - (V- 3x1mi) (T- 3x2mi)

55.7 - 18.0 - (V- 6x800m)

21.8 - 08.0 - (T- 4x1mi) (V- 5K @ 19:35)

Coyote Montane wrote:

So in your case you might start with an 800 or a couple 600s and work to the 1200. Three weeks isn't much time to prep, but you can make a little bit of headway between now and then.

Thank you for those thoughts. I'm not taking this track race too seriously, but certainly want the best result possible, all considered. All good advice, so we'll see what I can run.

(V=VO2max, L=Lactate threshold)[/quote]

Oops, I forgot I changed that to a Daniels' "T" for threshold workout!

Aargh. Today was supposed to be a dedicated office/paperwork day, and I keep getting distracted. Might have to just go to one of the jobsites and get some real work done!