Seems like any result from this contest is now suspect.
A co-founder, unhappy with the results, writes an entire article discrediting one of America’s most accomplished runners hours before voting closes?
Let the people decide without your last minute Hail Mary.
justarunner wrote:
Seems like any result from this contest is now suspect.
A co-founder, unhappy with the results, writes an entire article discrediting one of America’s most accomplished runners hours before voting closes?
Let the people decide without your last minute Hail Mary.
Bad journalism for sure. I guess he will have to compensate his investors.
george oscar bluth wrote:
Simpson has had a longer career, has more event versatility, faced better competition, has better times, and has a nice medal haul to boot.
Come on!
"A longer career"?! Get outta here. You dismissing what Joanie's been able to accomplish over the last 11 years??? Come on yourself.
Completely agree with this, disrespectful and manipulative "journalism".
For this G.O.A.T. conest, part of my judging criteria involved versatility. I docked points for the 800 and marathon specialists who had few or no medals, awards, or recognition in the events between those distances.
That's one of the reasons why I went with Simpson over Samuelson, but it was a tough choice.
which reminds me; where tf was Decker-Tabb-Slaney in the round of 64?! Glaring omission.
It gets tough at this point. Shorter launched the running revolution in the 70s-80's with his brillant Munich and Montreal. Jonie was one of those and I was one of those who were inspired. Jonie did for the budding womems running movement, winning LA. The problem is these events and their "specialness" as well as training and sponsorship opportunities are completely different now. Most of the posters only know Galen, Meb, Jenny, and Denna who have done awesome things but did not have the impediments or opportunity Frank and Joanie had.
donairs wrote:
Rowbury has a better 1500 pr than Simpson. And Rowbury was US #1 for more years than Simpson. They are both great. Head to head I might choose Rowbury, but it's close.
Joan above both.
That you think Rowbury is even in consideration against Simpson shows how little of stock we should put in your opinion.
rojo wrote:
One other thing about Simpson that I dind't put in the article. She's only been US #1 in the 1500 during 3 years of her career (2013-2014-2017).
Maybe I'll add that to the article
https://trackandfieldnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/05-w1500RankUS.pdf
One could counter that she also hasn't been outside the top 4 for US 1500m women in over a decade. Hasn't even been outside the top 2 since 2012.
Ain't gonna lie, I think it's a really stupid move to run a bracket based on fan votes, and then tell them that they're voting wrong. The thing that particularly irked me in the article is that it feels like you're arguing Olympic gold is objectively a better achievement than anything else. Would you like to argue that Noah Ngeny indisputably had a better career than Bernard Lagat because Lagat never won Olympic gold and Ngeny did?
I lean in favor of Joanie. I’d go in there and vote for her, but I’m boycotting the contest due to the Mary Decker exclusion.
kmaclam wrote:
george oscar bluth wrote:
Simpson has had a longer career, has more event versatility, faced better competition, has better times, and has a nice medal haul to boot.
Come on!
"A longer career"?! Get outta here. You dismissing what Joanie's been able to accomplish over the last 11 years??? Come on yourself.
Yes. Sorry I thought “world class” career was implied, not age groupers.
rojo wrote:
One other thing about Simpson that I dind't put in the article. She's only been US #1 in the 1500 during 3 years of her career (2013-2014-2017).
Maybe I'll add that to the article
I'm not familiar with these rankings and how they're decided, but how much stock can we put in them when they don't rank JS as #1 in 2016, the year she won an Olympic bronze (and beat Rowbury at the trials)? Maybe Rowbury beat Jenny at some Diamond League meets. But whose season would you rather have had?
Also why the heck would I care that she wasn't ranked US #1 in 2011 when she won Worlds? Such a stupid metric to use in trying to make your point.
If you were ranking based on who had the best race of their career, then sure, Joanie's Olympic gold in '84 probably trumps any single race of Jenny's. But it's an entire career we're assessing, and Jenny achieved more against better competition. Take the Africans out of Jenny's races and she'd look a lot better too.
rojo wrote:
Currently Simpson leads 54 % to 46%.
Really?
Does anyone else find this shocking?
Or am I just biased because I was 11 when Jonanie won and sort of remember it as being a very big deal.
UPDATE. Rojo has written an article saying why he thinks Joanie had the better career. You can still vote up until 12 midnight.
https://www.letsrun.com/news/2020/04/who-had-the-better-career-joan-benoit-samuelson-or-jenny-simpson/
That's funny. I remember when LRC refused to include Jenny's 2011 WC Daegu Gold race among the top 64 races in the last silly competition. Terrible judgment.
I had to vote for Jenny for that reason alone.
Benoit did hold the WR for the marathon at one point, as mentioned in the Olympic marathon video. I think it was from a 2:21 in Boston, but I could be wrong.
Also mentioned in the video was that, even at the 84 Olympics, there was only the 3000 and the marathon for women. People need to remember that when judging runners from the past. No WCs, not as many opportunities to pad the resume.
Also, I believe that Samuelson competed in 3 or 4 Olympic marathon trials.
ddnbb wrote:
doctorj wrote:
Notice Simpson also had am impressive NCAA career while Joan didn't. Inside and outside the NCAA Simpson had a strong running presence.That sealed the deal for me.
1) Joan Benoit Samuelson
Major marathon wins: 1979 and 1983 Boston Marathons
Note that Joan Benoit won the 1979 Boston Marathon while in college. When she showed up for dinner at the Bowdoin dining hall that evening, the students gave her a standing ovation.
That’s definitely more impressive than a couple of 1979 NCAA cross country, 5,000m, 10,000m or titles on her resume would be, in my opinion.
Benoit did not have the opportunity to compete in NCAA championships because there weren't any for women when she was in college.
Benoit v. Simpson is a tough comparison. Decker v. Simpson is the more interesting one.
justarunner wrote:
Seems like any result from this contest is now suspect.
A co-founder, unhappy with the results, writes an entire article discrediting one of America’s most accomplished runners hours before voting closes?
Let the people decide without your last minute Hail Mary.
What’s wrong with campaignin in elections? I started the thread as I was shocked by the results and wondered if they were justified. I then did some research and see why some voted for Simpson but think Joanie deserves it.
seasoned ranker wrote:
The real injustice is Ryun beating Lagat.
Agreed. Lagat has a bunch of gold medals and like a dozen US titles. Medals over records all day every day.
Seriously... Simpson has had a incredible career but Joanie has Olympic gold and broke the world record by 3 minutes. Her Chicago time stood as the fastest US time for 28 years....All of this in the summary. No contest Joanie.
Love this one
AT THESWOOSH wrote:
How can you be the GOAT if you never won Olympic Gold? Kind of lame. Jenny Simpson is the best "loser" of all-time for America? Is that what we're saying here?
And for the person that referenced her college career, I can't recall any great runner (Pre, Lindgren, Ritz, Goucher, etc.) ever getting DFL in her senior XC NCAA Championship race. Allegedly it was this race that prompted her Dr. Brown thyroid visit and TUE for the rest of her career.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tR6v41VAoEc
Get your facts straight before you post. She wasn't last. she was still top 100 I believe. She also won a world gold, certainly weird standards for losers.
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