Renato Canova defends Federico Rosa, "(It) is not possible to control what they individually do."

You are completely wrong about Prof. Schumacher. Even a cursory google search and a quick read through some of his publications reveal that he has quite a bit of testing on top athletes and how their biomarkers are affected by various training regimens. You state that other people do not know what they are talking about but it is clear that you are wiling to smear anybody with a contrary opinion to yours and dismiss all of their experience and expertise.

Renato Canova wrote:

Casual observer, the answer is very simple : prof. Olaf Schumacher is completely wrong.

Prof. Schumacher doesn't have any idea of what training is, and of the physiological variations can induce. He never tested any top athletes, and never tested their training.

Waitz wrote:

Renato Canova wrote:

4) It seems the most part of posters here continue to forget that the results come because of training. You think can come for doping, because don't have really any clue about the physiological changes that training can produce, when there is a big increase in volume and intensity, mixed in proper way.

When you say an increase in volume and intensity, mixed in a proper way. How is it mixed in a proper way? What is the relation between them, in terms of proportions of the complete and 100% of the training? Hope that makes sense.

To Canova `mixed in proper way` means that the runner will do 180-220 km per week until the bubble will explode.

Canova and his boy (Letei) feed off the naive young 1500m runners, draw them into their net, and hammer the hell out of them like sparring partners - turning the survivors - 'ever-so-quickly' into sub 60 half guys. Why? And how? (You tell me.) There is no interest in the individual athlete. Canova kills many more than he develops. Iten is riddled with Canova's wounded victims. Young women and young men used and abused (in a running sense) to soldier for his stars. Canova's screwed now though: His minion, Letei, has injured most of his crew while Canova was outside, 'caring' for his wife. Letei battered them in the long tempo runs. So the plan to make 1500m runners into marathon has/will fail. Sang will rule, but that's another story...

Lift your game. wrote:

m!ndweak wrote:

ps....dont call me a coward or a liar unless you HAVE proof and let us all know who you really are.....if you cant step up, then shut the f*ck up and dont call me out ever again.

WTF, you know who Coevett is, you've called him out heaps of times, same with Rekrunner and El Keniano.

well if its true that they are

steve ovett, gary lough and kiprop that would be classic, and would explain quite a bit

Renato Canova wrote:

In the case of Rosa, I know something that the posters don't know. I know the agreement between the management and IAAF/WADA for fighting doping, I know they started tests with their athletes before putting in some race, I know they removed doubtful athletes from the management (provoking the reaction of Isaiah Kiplagat, who banned the management for some time). And I know, how already explained, that in the type of organization they had, and have, there is a big room of individual opportunities for acting without control, because the number of Camps in the most part of Kenya can't have any strict control by the central management.

.

Like other people didn't know, they announced it with a picure in the Kenyan newspapers. Crazy that managers check their own athletes and if they are positive they stay at home. The athletes go to another manager or stop running and will never be banned. The manager continue without having the negative impact of a positive athlete. If can not believe they had an agreement with the IAAF/WADA, would be a really bad mix !

The funny thing is that he thinks this exonerates Rosa, but they have continued to have athletes test positive. The most logical conclusion is that they are running pre-competition tests on their athletes to make sure they aren't glowing when they go to competition. Age-old strategy as practices by Balco and lots of other dopers.

So, let's peel the onion a little more, Mr C..;) Pole pole (Yes, I'm back.)

This magical training camp of yours on the top of the hill, overlooking Iten, that you built for your athletes so they could train like monks/be locked away from the outside world...will Sondre stay in there again? No way! Do you stay in there? No chance.

Sondre is in the Kerio View eating like a king every night. As are you. You sit there at that table like you own the yard. Then you come on here, playing the humble monk (Don't get me started on the little fat fella and his big feck-off white car and how he lives it up in the KV, playing the humble brother/celebrity greatest coach/priest/other things; actually, while we're on him... he was in Lornha's last Saturday afternoon slagging Kiprop to some tourist from Boston, saying Kiprop's records should be stripped and he's a disgrace. All of Kiprop's running was doped - even under you; ask him: he was slagging you off as a doping cheat.) You fellas aren't safe anymore: we're all over you now.

It's BS and it needs to be called out. Yes, you type up a few workouts on your Mac, and you go to Chepkoilel and Moiben Rd etc but you live like a king in the KV and your boy (Letei) is in Lornha's HATC all day long. Time to cut the Buffalo shight. All this crap about food and camps is bollix. You, Rossa, the brother, and a few others are up to no good and all of you are evil. The phoney registration of all foreign coaches on the 9th Jan was a joke. Pathetic. Don't get me started on this one. The tourists are getting wise to you wise guys.

You are exploiting these talented Kenyans; you'll rot in hell...

dont know whats going on here, but it appears someone who is actually boobs on the ground has some insider infos...this is great confusing ramblings and i love it haha

Lol, if you say so Gary.

Why won't you let Lucy go to the club, Ricky?

So many stupid messages on here.

I usually skip over and don't even read at least 90 percent of them.

What we have learnt in this thread?

That Renato, who claims to be at war with Rosa, started a thread defending him. Ha? Then we discussed the benefits of epo and we learnt that it clearly still works, and works very well indeed. We saw examples of times run by what would be very good national runners and within one year's 'proper training' they can do mega super-dooper times, unachievable by great athletes from yesteryear, who may themselves have been suspicious. These sudden stars, we'd never heard of, are here a short time and then disappear. And we are meant not be suspicious. It works well, very well.

Hahaha! I think Canova will stay away for a while before he comes back for his humble bragging about `the only way ` , hahaha!

Your post is a collection of lies, due to envy and jealousy.

- Canova and his boy (Letei) feed off the naive young 1500m runners, draw them into their net, and hammer the hell out of them like sparring partners - turning the survivors - 'ever-so-quickly' into sub 60 half guys. Why? And how? (You tell me.) There is no interest in the individual athlete. -

It's because there is interest in individual that we try to chose, for every athlete, the best option for his future. Your "naive young 1500m runners" are already 22-25 years old, are not sparring partners of anybody, but try to become athletes themselves, and if somebody has more specific talent, more discipline and more patience, in few months can run under 1 h in HM, and (surprise !) the next year can run a full marathon between 2:05 and 2:06.

Why ? Because their main attitude in in that direction, of course we don't try to prepare Ronald Kwemoi for a future marathon.

How ? With proper training, that of course is hard, but smart, when training hard only (but not smart) produces maybe one big performance, and no longer improvement.

- Canova kills many more than he develops. Iten is riddled with Canova's wounded victims. Young women and young men used and abused (in a running sense) to soldier for his stars.

Canova's screwed now though: His minion, Letei, has injured most of his crew while Canova was outside, 'caring' for his wife. Letei battered them in the long tempo runs. So the plan to make 1500m runners into marathon has/will fail. Sang will rule, but that's another story... -

Sorry to inform you that in Iten I had athletes still alive with good results after many years. Some example ?

Stephen Cherono was with me from 2001 till 2006 (when practically ended his career for a stupid accident against the door of a car, damaging his knee). In 6 years, he broke the WR as Junior, the WR, won two times WCh, and without the injury probably could be the best still now.

Sylvia Kibet started with me in 2004, when was 20. She won silver medal (5000m) in WCh in 2009 and 2011, and Olympic bronze in 2008. Her PB in 3000m was in 2013, and still now (after having the second baby) is able to run a full marathon in 2:28:28.

Moses Mosop started with me in 2002, when was only 17. He won bronze medal (10000m) in WCh 2005, silver medal in Cross Country in 2007, in 2011 ran his first marathon in 2:03:06, bettered the WR of 30000m in 1:26:47 and won Chicago Marathon, and in 2015 still ran 2:06 in Xiamen, in spite of a lot of personal problems, born after his separation from Florence Kiplagat.

Florence Kiplagat was with me from 2008. In 2009 won WCh in cross country and ran the national record of 10000m in 30'11"53, in 2010 became WCh in HM, in 2011 started to run marathon winning Berlin in 2:19:44. She won some Major (Chicago in 2015 and 2016, Berlin again in 2013), and bettered the WR of HM in 2014 and 2015. Now we are in 2019, and after one year with several problems, is still running at very high level.

Who is strong has the motivation for continuing, who is weak after some years decide to quit. Who has the motivation needs to be professional, who is weak can become a farmer, because in Kenya nobody tun for fun only.

About the idea that Litei (and not Letei) killed everybody in long run, the results are clear : Daniele Kipchumba on 16th September won Copenhagen HM beating the future WR holder Abraham Kiptum (running 59:06 for the second time), and Josphat Boit was the only one pacing Eliud Kipchoge till almost 27 km (after remaining the only pacer from 15 km) during the WR of Berlin. Samwel Chepolei (younger brother of Ronald Kwemoi) was so destroyed that won, still youth, the Kenyan National Championships of 5,000m, while Noah Kipkemboi never was in real good shape, because of a bad cancer of his father (who died 3 weeks ago). Probably you don't know, but also Kenyan have a private life, and sometimes not everything is going in the right direction.

- This magical training camp of yours on the top of the hill, overlooking Iten, that you built for your athletes so they could train like monks/be locked away from the outside world...will Sondre stay in there again? No way! Do you stay in there? No chance.

Sondre is in the Kerio View eating like a king every night. As are you. You sit there at that table like you own the yard.

I don't understand what the choice of Sondre to stay in Kerio View (because stays in Kenya 2 months only at the moment) has to do with the camp. The camp is not locked away, but is the HOUSE of the athletes when are in training. A camp is not an hotel, where people can go in and out every moment. Athletes need concentration, rest and team work. Probably you don't know what athletes need for being professional. Go to see in Kaptagat the behavior of Eliud Kipchoge, and after you quit to write stupidities.

About myself, maybe you don't know that in 2004 I built my house INSIDE Kerio View. This is something part of an agreement beyween me and the owner, Jean Paul Fournier. And for that reason, since I have my house in Kerio View, I don't see anything strange if I eat (not every time and not every day...) sited in a table of Kerio, where I'm (while in Kenya) from 2003, so now are almost 17 years of frequentation. Can this disturb you ?

- Then you come on here, playing the humble monk (Don't get me started on the little fat fella and his big feck-off white car and how he lives it up in the KV, playing the humble brother/celebrity greatest coach/priest/other things; actually, while we're on him... he was in Lornha's last Saturday afternoon slagging Kiprop to some tourist from Boston, saying Kiprop's records should be stripped and he's a disgrace. All of Kiprop's running was doped - even under you; ask him: he was slagging you off as a doping cheat.) You fellas aren't safe anymore: we're all over you now.

You English is too much complicated for me, and honestly I don't understand what you write. What I understand is that there is Kiprop's name (All of Kiprop's running was doped - even under you), but there is the small particular that I never coached Asbel in my life, apart one week (he asked me after the Prefontaine meeting 2017, when Ronald won the Mile and Asbel was the last), when I explained him that needed to run again some longer distance, since he had lost all his aerobic power. And I'm not sure Asbel was really doped, there is something strange in his situation.

- You fellas aren't safe anymore: we're all over you now.

Your attempt the threaten me is really pathetic : I'm still quacking with fear.......

- It's BS and it needs to be called out. Yes, you type up a few workouts on your Mac, and you go to Chepkoilel and Moiben Rd etc but you live like a king in the KV and your boy (Letei) is in Lornha's HATC all day long. Time to cut the Buffalo shight. All this crap about food and camps is bollix. You, Rossa, the brother, and a few others are up to no good and all of you are evil. The phoney registration of all foreign coaches on the 9th Jan was a joke. Pathetic. Don't get me started on this one. The tourists are getting wise to you wise guys.

I don't type in my Mac, because I have an old Microsoft program, and my PC is an old Sony.... I live like a king because I do what I like, also if at the moment I live in the Office of Kerio View and not in my house, because I gave the owner the chnace to host more people in this period... Litei never is in Lornah's HATC all day long, maybe one hour in one week.... and if you want to have some credibility with some idiot believing your bullshits, learn to write Rosa and not Rossa....

the phoney registration of all foreign coaches on 9th Jan were not a joke, and were not phoney.... the problem are the registration of Kenyan coaches, because the most part of them don't have any degree, many of them not real experience, but (especially the husbands) want to coach athletes without any competence.

At the end of your two posts, the only comments can be in the following words :

ENVY, JEALOUSIE, LIES, MISINFORMATION, INVENTION, ACRIMONY, DEFAMATION, and, at the end, STUPIDITY.

If you write :

Harsh words, yet Professor Olaf Schumacher wrote about EPO that it can "take as much as one minute off the time taken to run 10,000 metres, and proportionately more over lesser distances"

1 minute for a 28' runner is 3.5%, and Schumacher thinks it would be relatively even more in shorter races. So the 4%, while certainly on the high end of experts' estimates, is not "completely idiotic", unless you have evidence that the IAAF uses idiots as experts on their ABP panel.

I can tell you that that estime, if generalized, is "idiotic". Don't forget I never denied some effect of EPO on the performances of average athletes, but what I always deny is an advantage with top athletes, having top talent, training in altitude and in proper and smart way.

Too many people here think NOT POSSIBLE to compete at the top without doping, and I can't accept this conclusion.

But, if you look at this interview with Prof. Olaf Schumacher :

SS: Final question – more your personal opinion. Given that you’ve worked in doping control and spent much of your research pursuing methods to detect doping, are you able to watch and appreciate human performances with maximum appreciation, or do you find that your skepticism detracts from the enjoyment of sport?

YOS: I certainly can. Not every good performance is doping. I have seen many athletes excelling at Olympic level where I am quite certain that they never used performance enhancing drugs. It´s possible, even against cheats! Definitely not for everyone, and not every day. But with the right talent, the right training and on the right day. Unfortunately, many careers of talented athletes have been cut short or shattered because of the presence of doping among their opponents. I have personally witnessed some tragic cases in the 1990s. There are many examples… And that is the sad thing about the whole story in certain sports: Its the victories, the careers and sometimes the lives that have been stolen from those who didn’t dope.

I don't find anything wrong. This is what we can verify every day, this was what prof. Schumacher could verify in many years in his role, and practically we say the same thing : IT'S POSSIBLE TO BE AT THE TOP IN CLEAN WAY.

This is my battle, and I never stop to fight for giving in the mind of athletes that WE CAN, without any doping, if there is the right talent, the right training, the right discipline, the right motivation.

Renato Canova wrote:

I can tell you that that estime, if generalized, is "idiotic". Don't forget I never denied some effect of EPO on the performances of average athletes, but what I always deny is an advantage with top athletes, having top talent, training in altitude and in proper and smart way.

Total BS!...and I'm tired of the same old rhetoric that EPO doesn't work on top talented Kenyans. I think there were enough doped-up top Kenyans who "won" medals & titles at major competitions, set a WR and posted some of the fastest times in their event .

Try these names out for size: Kiprop, Bett, Jeptoo, Sumgong, Jebet, Kisorio, Yego, Muraga, Rutto, etc.). They are no slouches and were big time and primetime athletes. All of them tested positive for for rocket fuel! (Kisorio officially tested hot for nandronlone, but based on him talking about a substance "injected straight to the blood for the body to have more oxygen" and running "so smooth" with "more stamina"...house money says he was on a EPO-roid cocktail and was only glowing from long half-life of the steroid at the time of the test.

"Kisorio, who has competed in world cross-country championships and ran the third fastest half-marathon ever, told the German broadcaster ARD last year that he took illegal drugs "because everyone told me, I wasn't the only one – and none of the others got caught for doping".

"He added: "I know that a lot of medical substances are used, which are injected straight to the blood for the body to have more oxygen. And when you run, you run so smooth. You have more stamina."

"When the prize money comes in the doctors want a piece of your success. There are some doctors who settle down in popular athlete areas where you can find the training camps. These men just open a pharmacy and claim they are just selling legal medication. Then they approach the athletes. It is the same all over the country."

Your long letters of bragging just always show your EGO! And this never ending story about your training system would be the only way of `proper training`...….. I always just use to laugh at it for myself and think `` He has coached top results, but even that he doesnt know better `` lol

Renato Canova wrote:

In all the group, very few athletes were not under continuous control, so these are all results achieved in clean way.

Perhaps you should tell us which of your athletes were not under continuous control, in order that you do not just assign that status to any of your runners after they are busted...

+1