Real Low Mileage performers.

Jim, you should be charging for posting here, thanks so much.

dude-

I ran a 3.59 mile of 30 miles per week plus a 3.41 - 1500 and 1.49 - 800. Emphasis was on 3 quality sessions a week which were always short and quick .My recovery runs were normally around 30 minutes and I would be anything from 5.00 to 5.30 miling so not hanging around . I sometimes think what I would have done if I had done more miles.

3:59.98 Richard Ashe (ENG) 5.10.74 3 London (He) 31 Aug 1996

3:41.2 Richard Ashe (ENG) 5.10.74 1 Manchester (W) 30 Jul 1996

Are you retired nowadays? Did injuries halt your career? 30mpw is very low for the track times you were running.

Evan Jager, 8:50 2mile at NON, Fastest JR at FLNLs No more than 40-50 a week

2006 PERFROMANCES

Event Perf Pos Venue Date Meeting

800 1:52.07 2 Kingston 1 Jul 06 BRITISH ATHLETICS LEAGUE National 2

800 1:52.58 6 C Watford 10 Jun 06 BMC

800 1:53.51 2 h1 London (CP) 17 Jun 06 Southern Senior & U20 Championships

800 1:53.8 3 Crawley 5 Aug 06 British League National 2

800 1:55.4 2 Abingdon 3 Jun 06 Southern Men’s League Division 2

1500 3:43.97 11 A Solihull 24 Jun 06 BMC

1500 3:50.08 11 h2 Manchester (SC) 15 Jul 06 Norwich Union European Trials

1500 3:56.2 2 Crawley 5 Aug 06 British League National 2

Thanks Jim

Great to hear your still with Acics and sounds like your a sales guy ( like me). I did read your other reply as well

and it's very informative to learn that at the highest levels of the sport there is an ongoing conflict: race

pay days or long term goals like OL. Interesting to read how you achieved balance here ( short term income to pay bills + long term goals), and everything I know about Dr. Dave being from the long - term european approach

you certainly had success.

Are you still coaching at the college level anymore ? I've been out of the sport for some years due to career & family

so last I heard you were outside of Chicago w/ a D2 school.. correct ?

It would also be interesting to know if you have any advice on an upcoming masters athlete with a focus on 1500 - 3000M

from a training perspective. I'm getting the bug again to race and am now 37 so getting closer to the big 40...

I coached at the University of Chicago from 1997 through 2001. Great, great fun. We had 38 on the team when I started, and 90 in my second year. I left Chicago in '01, and went to Vanerbilt to try coaching at the Divison 1 level. Was there through December of 2005.

I have coached my running club, JSRC, since 1990. I have reserved the web site, but have not had time to get it up and running. I have a group here in Chicago, and one in Nashville. Great fun as well.

For getting close to 40, I found that I could put in the work on the track or tempo runs on the roads, I just had to insert an extra day of recovery. Monday itervals, and then not again until Thursday. Long run on Saturday, and repeat the cycle. Also, difficult to fit time in with a family, from my two young sons at the time; and now, getting a date in each week with my wife (hour of coffee to be on the same page). The priority of being selfish to make sure I put in two workouts a day, takes a back seat. Which is a good thing as well.

js

I went to a session Jim was presenting at Kent State waaay back, maybe 1989 or 90. Great guy, great presentation. One of my all time favorite runners.

As I was looking up informaton to make some of the previous posts, I came across the workout I ran with Seb Coe and his club in 1988. I have to admit, I was very apprehensive and nervous, taking the London Underground down to Wood Green. We would be doing the workout near the track, a field near Haringey.

I was in good shape, as two weeks prior I had won the Chicago Shamrock Shuffle in 23:50 in the cold with light snow flurries, running 14:46 through 3 miles, and then 9:04 for the last just under 2 miles. And 2 weeks prior to that won the USATF 3000m in New York City Madison Square Garden in 7:52.9 (4:17 at the mile), an indoor PR. But still, what would I do if Seb put in a surge? Do you go with him, or is that racing? How about if I get tired, do I stop the workout for a warm-down? Most distance runners, if you start the workout, you finish the workout. I am sure I showed up white as a ghost, as the 25 or so runners were stretching getting ready for the warm-up run of 25-30 minutes. Heck - that was some of my easy day recovery runs!

Here is the entire workout: On the grass

5 minutes - up and down a small hill

4 minutes hi knee and 4 minutes kicking your rear end

then easy running

4 laps of about 300 meters, relaxed pace with a short recovery between

then,run in a big circle, following the runner in front of you. Each time Peter Coe blew the whistle, you dropped and did 4 push-ups. Great stuff looking around, and seeing everyone on the same page. We also did this with part on the side of the hill. So at times, when the whistle blew, you were facing up or down. We jogged a bit.

2x600 (1:40 time) and took 300 jog between each

2x500 (1:20 timed) and took 200 jog

2x400 (1:05 timed) and took 150 jog

2x300 (:48 timed) and tood 150 jog

jogged a bit

Indian Relay, 8 laps on the field. Ran Indian file, and when the whistle blew, you moved to the front. This was for 5 minutes, and I wrote "surge" to the front.

then, 4-man relay, for a total of 8 laps. I had three others on my team, and was in competition with 6 or 7 other teams. I can remember working hard to move my team up, and slapping hands with my partner.

Then, they broke us up into 2-man teams, and Peter paired me with Seb. I am sure I was scared. The workout was getting long, and I had my watch going from the beginning. I looked down, and we were well past an hour of runnning by now.

Off we all went, I was in the lead group. Do you sprint ahead? That would look stupid! I thought. I ran with the lead 5 runners, and slapped Seb's hand. As he came around, there were 4 runners who were sprinting away, "running away from a world record holder." Seb was just running his pace. He slapped my hand, and I looked up and it was like college days. I took off and caught the clowns on the back side of the loop. "OK, if you can be aggressive, I will too!" I pulled away from the group, and was going to slap Seb's hand in the lead by about 3-4 seconds. As I got closer to handing off, Peter yelled to the runners that were waiting for their parter -"Go!" What the heck! I came in, and everyone else had left except Seb. I gave Peter a very grumpy look, and said, "What was all that about!" He said, "I want him to work, and if you gave him the lead, he could just coast."

What! I thought, a world record holder coast! Never may it be! Seb caught the group, and off I went again, content this time to come in with them.

1.5 miles warm-down, and 11.5 miles for the workout.

Took the train back to Southgate where I was living and training for 2 1/2 weeks. Took a long nap.

Next day, March 27, I ran 27 mins in the morning and 33 in the afternoon. Visited the Tower of London, and wrote: "Hamstrings very sore." Only ran 3 miles the next day. What a wimp.

js

sometimes its not the miles but the meat

And when the workout was finished, Seb turned to me and asked what I thought. He replied: "The key is to get your pulse rate up, in a acceptable range, and keep it there. Don't go to high - just keep it there for a long time."

That was how Mike had trained me - do a workout, 5-6 miles on the track broken up into 200's, 250's 400's, 600's etc, and never run hard. I just always thought that S. Coe did fast stuff. Like reading about his 6x800 cutdown with the last one in 1:51, etc.

js

Jim, thanks for the awesome posts. I wish more athletes would be as open about their training as you have been over the years on both letsrun and T& F News.

There has often been a lot of debate over the figures (in terms of toal mileage run) quoted by both Peter and Seb Coe. Your posts have highlighted that your longeset run was done with Seb and the lagre volume that some of Seb's sessions contained. What would you say (guess) his weekly mileage would be? Also you training sounds slightly along the lines of guys were doing lines the 60's with MI and the LA track club. I know Joe Douglas still uses smilar sessions that you have posted.

JR

That is amazing that you would mention Joe Douglas! My coach, Mike Durkin, worked with Joe for 1 or 2 years, and then when he was in law school in Chicago, still used Joe as a sounding board.

My training was based on Igoli, which is what Joe used.

Very perceptive.

js

I've done a few sessions with Joe when I've come out from Australia to visit my family in LA. One day he had me run 5x10x150 with 50 jog then 400 jog btw sets. Just when I thought I was done for the day he had be run a 400 at the end in 48 point (48.4). Other sessions included 8x200, 8x250, 8x200, 8x250.Much the same as what you have posted. Lots and lots of volume on the track. We'd start every session with 8 jog then 10x100 then 6x150 with 50 jog and then do the session. Only down side was that all of thses session were on the old hard mondo track at SMJC and I feel that all his athletes would have been better off doing maybe two of those sessions on a grass track.

The most 2's and 250's I ever ran, was 40x: 4 sets of 5x200(100)[400]5x250(150)[400] in 1987 around the Indiana University soccer field on a cinder track. I was out there for 1 hour and 27 minutes. Almost like "once a runner" book feeling afterwards and the next two days - in a haze. Note - you can go as slow as you want to.

I did the workout again every year around tax time, but 5x200/4x250, and more in the 28-34 range of intervals. When it was cooler, the workout was manageable.

Readers will say, "ah, 250 is a wimp interval." Run 5 of these in :40, relaxed, that is 4:16 mile pace, and you only get 150 jog between each, or around 45 seconds. 5 of these plus a 400 between sets is a mile and a half of intervals. Run 4 sets = 6 miles of intervals. No wonder on the off days, one would only run 20-30 minutes.

js

love this thread, the opposite of that interminable lydiard thread; refreshing;

HRE wrote

I would say that more people get close to their best potential off of more mileage than they do off of lower mileage.

I agree with this statement.

The majority of those people are not spending anywhere the time periods at the sort of specific intensity's that Jim, Seb, Bannister, et al did.

They are also largely staying on the safe side of the ‘red line’ in respect to ‘burn out’.

(Aerobic versus anaerobic.)

Jims training and results just proves what most open minded people already knew.

“There is more than one way to skin a cat”

bap

Track Fan - Good guess! Officially retired from track this season mainly due to the body not being able to recover so well after sessions. Still ran a 3.43 1500m this summer which isn't bad for a 32 year old but deep down I know a PB is beyond me now due to a full time job and having a young family. Next aim is the London Marathon which I suspect is going to be damn hard for a guy who is not use to mileage!!! As I suspect with many people on this Forum, I feel I never reached my full potential after running 3.41 for 1500 and the 3.59 mile at the age of 21 but 4 knee opeartions in 4 years did not help. Saying that had some real highs in my career as well as a few lows but had some brilliant experiences and made some great friends along the way.

JS AND LL, thanks. Best thread in a long time.