Respected commentator Tim Hutchings calls out times from past drug era, says more natural levels now.

Why turn calling out dopers into some kind of race baiting politics? Call a spade a spade. East Africans and Algerians/Moroccans do have a doping problem. When people were calling out the tour de France or Lance Armstrong for doping I didn't hear any nonsense about "oh those people just are racist and bigots against Europeans". When we call out the Chinese or Russian doping programs I don't hear people saying "oh you must hate Chinese/Russians". Me personally, I believe Americans/Europeans are just as dirty as the east Africans and Moroccans/Algerians.

casual obsever wrote:

And box jumps in case of Paula. Plus as extra trick, extreme dehydration of 20 - 30% during racing, thus huge loss of weight and thus super world records.

Lol. Do you remember the 60 minutes-type interview with Armstrong after he won his first TdF? The journalist was amazed how nearly died and was now the best cyclist in the world, he and his coach claimed that it was due to their discovery of an easier gear and a higher peddling rate. I can't find the exact quote but this,

"Armstrong trained as he had never before. Ironically, the cancer had changed his body in ways that weren't all bad. He was 15 pounds lighter, which makes a big difference when riding uphill. In the first stage of the 1999 Tour, he beat his rivals in a race against the clock.

Ten days later, Armstrong was still leading the race. The next stage took riders into the mountains to the alpine village of Sestriere. Armstrong's rivals assumed he would crack.

Five hours of racing later, Armstrong was still climbing toward Sestriere. But two racers had broken away from the pack. They figured they had dropped Armstrong, perhaps for good. They were wrong. Armstrong attacked while going uphill.

Armstrong passed the two riders and kept going. No one caught him. After six hours of riding and 133 miles in the Alps, Armstrong was already an icon.

The French press was convinced that Armstrong had been doped and that the cancer had been faked. When Armstrong passed daily drug tess, the controversy was laid to rest.

As he mounted the champion's podium on the Champs d'Elysees, he knew his victory meant something to people who had never cared about the Tour de France."

I only post under my registered name and the owners of this site are very anti-doping and concerned with the future of this sport, so you can scream racism all you like. When even Kenyans can see a huge problem with doping in their sport and a former runner and top coach admitted the other day that the sport is dying even there as a spectator sport, to suggest anybody who brings the subject up should be banned for racism is disgusting.

And hello El K, it's obvious this is you posting under another handle. Are you not identifying as transblack in this post? Your constnat racist, anti-white, anti-British posts sickens me, but as long as you don't cross the line and explicitly condone or encourage the genocide against white farmers that is taking place in several African countries currently, then I believe you have the right to free speech, distasteful though it is.

I would also again remind the mods to keep a record of these people's IPs. Although they surely have the sense to be using proxies, if the investigation is serious enough to warrant it, they can be traced.

This individual (under the name Avocado's Number) made at least a vague threat yesterday suggesting 'I needed help', and that he was going to come and give it to me. In the light of the suspicious death of David Torrence - who also faced death threats online for speaking out against African doping - and the earlier threats and death threats I've received on this site, I think the mods should be not only keeping tabs on this, but considering banning those who are encouraging violence against my person.

Hill Run wrote:

El Keniano wrote:

So what exactly was the reply?

The reply was along the lines of "Well look how the record turned out for Ruth Jebet" - its not word perfect but I replied to her saying that her tweet was small minded and spiteful and something I was disappointed in reading from an elite athlete

Good for you and she needed to be told. It’s one thing to be disappointed in your own performance but to cast aspersions on a competitor without a shred of proof is, indeed, small minded. Again, I don’t recall her calling out Courtney Frerichs for her massive PR at the worlds. When Beatrice ran her 8:28 on the flat, I posted we were due to see something special from her and was actually a little disappointed with her 8:59 in Paris.

it's 2018 not 1998 wrote:

Records were set up forGebreselassie, El Gerrouj, Komen, Bekele. That is not the case now.

Farah is a different kind of runner than Bekele, he has more speed and some might say he was not capable of beating Bekele's times?

Eliud Kipchoge is still around. Do you think he must be doping? I know you're trolling, but you don't seriously think he is do you?

Anyway address the issue of bioenergetics. It's not difficult to understand or for me to explain to you.

Trying to get exercise physiologists and journalists/bloggers on board though? The mythology has to be de-constructed and that means people have to get off the PED bandwagon and self righteous moralising. That's going to be difficult. The PED construct is a like a religious dogma and such things are culturally inherited and rigidly imposed.

They certainly worked for me! Gave me 3 minutes on my 10k, and an Olympic spot.

You know we can see what he wrote -- right?

Coevett wrote:

I would also again remind the mods to keep a record of these people's IPs. Although they surely have the sense to be using proxies, if the investigation is serious enough to warrant it, they can be traced.

This individual (under the name Avocado's Number) made at least a vague threat yesterday suggesting 'I needed help', and that he was going to come and give it to me. In the light of the suspicious death of David Torrence - who also faced death threats online for speaking out against African doping - and the earlier threats and death threats I've received on this site, I think the mods should be not only keeping tabs on this, but considering banning those who are encouraging violence against my person.

Cathal Lombard ran 13:19.22 and is currently ranked 3024th all time. He took 5th place in that race. Ron Clarke ran faster in 1966. Even at his peak, Lombard was not a real threat. This doesn't seem like the unnatural levels Tim Hutchings was alluding to.

Ivig wrote:

They certainly worked for me! Gave me 3 minutes on my 10k, and an Olympic spot.

Sand Dunes wrote:

Why turn calling out dopers into some kind of race baiting politics? Call a spade a spade. East Africans and Algerians/Moroccans do have a doping problem. When people were calling out the tour de France or Lance Armstrong for doping I didn't hear any nonsense about "oh those people just are racist and bigots against Europeans". When we call out the Chinese or Russian doping programs I don't hear people saying "oh you must hate Chinese/Russians". Me personally, I believe Americans/Europeans are just as dirty as the east Africans and Moroccans/Algerians.

You're misapprehending my views about doping; the likely prevalence of doping in various countries, cultures, and specific racial, ethnic, and socioeconomic groups; and my particular objections to much of what Coevett says. I think it's perfectly reasonable to come up with various hypotheses, presumptions, and probabilities about doping practices among certain groups based on objective analysis of available evidence. Findings of statistically significant differences among racial and ethnic groups are not ipso facto racist or bigoted; they may simply be the result of good science or statistical interpretation. But assumptions, findings, and conclusions based upon group animus or chauvinism are a different matter.

Unlike you, I don't "believe Americans/Europeans are just as dirty as the east Africans and Moroccans/Algerians," if you mean to suggest that doping in all of these groups is equally prevalent. I think that it would be a very odd coincidence for that to be so. But I hope that my views on these matters are and will be based on good science and careful thinking, not presumptions that reflect personal animus or xenophobia.

I'm no Twitter expert, but... wrote:

She doesn't even give it the slightest mention on her Twitter:

https://twitter.com/emmajcoburn?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

As much as I like Emma Coburn, you've got to remember that her flat 3k PB is 8:48. Of course she can't compete with someone actually fast.

She converts her 8:48 to a 9:02 steeple. So that's a 14 second difference. 8:48 is not a world class performance.

I'm not sure I even have to spell it out now but this new 8:44 girl therefore probably runs ~8:30.

Again, what would Obiri (8:20 pb) run for the steeple? Or Muir (8:26) ?

rekrunner wrote:

You know we can see what he wrote -- right?

Coevett wrote:

I would also again remind the mods to keep a record of these people's IPs. Although they surely have the sense to be using proxies, if the investigation is serious enough to warrant it, they can be traced.

This individual (under the name Avocado's Number) made at least a vague threat yesterday suggesting 'I needed help', and that he was going to come and give it to me. In the light of the suspicious death of David Torrence - who also faced death threats online for speaking out against African doping - and the earlier threats and death threats I've received on this site, I think the mods should be not only keeping tabs on this, but considering banning those who are encouraging violence against my person.

Hmm..are accusing me of lying? He, or somebody exact same language as this person uses, posted that 'I needed help, and asked if he should come and give me some'.

Very odd that you're defending this guy now.

rekrunner wrote:

You know we can see what he wrote -- right?

Coevett wrote:

I would also again remind the mods to keep a record of these people's IPs. Although they surely have the sense to be using proxies, if the investigation is serious enough to warrant it, they can be traced.

This individual (under the name Avocado's Number) made at least a vague threat yesterday suggesting 'I needed help', and that he was going to come and give it to me. In the light of the suspicious death of David Torrence - who also faced death threats online for speaking out against African doping - and the earlier threats and death threats I've received on this site, I think the mods should be not only keeping tabs on this, but considering banning those who are encouraging violence against my person.

I've started feeling sorry for Coevett. He must have something wrong with him to seriously think he's important enough to be assassinated for talking about doping on an anonymous message board.

As in medically wrong.

You use a quote from Tim Hutchins, a widely respected former athlete and chief BBC commentator for athletics, and claim that I need to be banned for posting it, which I didn't.

I think you need help. Maybe when I get fed up of this and subpoena the Brojos for your IP, you might just get it from your local police department. I'm certainly not waiting around before it's too late like David Torrence did.

ex-runner wrote:

rekrunner wrote:

You know we can see what he wrote -- right?

I've started feeling sorry for Coevett. He must have something wrong with him to seriously think he's important enough to be assassinated for talking about doping on an anonymous message board.

As in medically wrong.

You mean like the site owners and the family of David Torrence?

Avocado's Number wrote:

, I don't think that it should be used for that purpose -- but it might help to reset his thoughts about why he's behaving this way on this site and whether it makes sense to continue to do so.

What on Earth is this if not a threat, in the context of a number of explicit threats I've had here before this? As for Rekrunner, it doesn't matter what your doping apologist aspie opinion is, all that matters is the opinions of this guy's local FBI department.

Some stats about how common (or rare) sub-12:50 was: Between 1995-2007, only: - 10 athletes have run sub-12:50, including Songok, Cherono, Lahlafi, Mourhit, and Tergat - 5 athletes have run sub-12:48, including Kipchoge, and Sihine - 3 athletes have run sub-12:46 (also sub-12:40) -- the three greats Bekele, Geb, and Komen - 15 races were won sub-12:50, by 6 athletes -- Geb (4x), Komen (3x), Lahlafi, Cherono, Bekele (5x) and Kipchoge - In races without Geb, Komen, and Bekele, it was only necessary to run sub-12:50 to win in three races (winning times 12:46.53, 12:48.81, and 12:49.28) - The two Moroccans were Brahim Lahlafi at 12:49.28, then Mohammed Mourhit at 12:49.71 in Brusells 2000. (El G's best was 12:50.24). Post ABP, only one race was sub-12:50 -- Paris 2012, in the deepest 5000m ever: - 6 athletes ran sub-12:50, three Ethiopians and three Kenyans, including Koech, Alamirew, Longosiwa, Kipkoech - 2 of them ran sub-12:48 -- Gebremeskel, Gebrhiwet - none ran sub-12:46 - 6 Kenyans and 6 Ethiopians ran sub-13:00 - a struggling K. Bekele ran a season best at 12:55.79, but was 5th Ethiopian and 2nd Bekele IIRC, the reason for the fast times in Paris 2012: Ethiopian 5000m Olympic selection

At last, an honest commentator telling it like it is. wrote:

Former international distance runner and commentator Tim Hutchings during the London Grand Prix 5k on Eurosport talking about previous fast times and how nobody had run below 13 minutes this year:

"Those times seem a thing of the past...a bygone era, I never thought I'd hear myself say that, but sub 12.50 times now seem like science fiction almost. With the drug testing that goes on has nailed down so much of the activity in the sport of track and field, athletic standards have dropped dramatically to perhaps more natural levels over this past two or three years."

Well done Tim, hopefully more will come out, we might even get a few athletes admitting to it.

I hope you do post only under "Coevett"; I think it's important that you get called out when your postings get out of hand. (And, of course, I've never suggested that "anybody who brings the subject [of doping] up should be banned for racism." The subject is sometimes raised by thoughtful people, although their comments are largely overwhelmed on this site by comments that are ignorant, witless, tiresome, and worse.

No, I'm not El Keniano, although I don't particularly mind your confusion, since my recollection is that El Keniano is a thoughtful poster who makes positive contributions to this site. It is kind of funny to be referred to as "transblack," "anti-white," and "anti-British." I mean, I may not like their food, a few of them whine a lot on this site, and their top runners have gone from some of the toughest in the world to relatively soft and slow, but I'd say that I still have a generally favorable view of the British people as a whole, and I recognize that, as an American, I'm not coming from a position of strength these days.

As for genocide of white farmers in Africa, it's not a subject that I've thought about very much during my life, and it certainly hadn't crossed my mind to speak out in favor of it.

Coevett wrote:

ex-runner wrote:

I've started feeling sorry for Coevett. He must have something wrong with him to seriously think he's important enough to be assassinated for talking about doping on an anonymous message board.

As in medically wrong.

You mean like the site owners and the family of David Torrence?

http://www.letsrun.com/news/2018/02/maricopa-county-medical-examiner-rules-david-torrences-death-accidental-drowning-family-questions-remain-death-threats-received/

Yeah once again you've mistaken yourself for someone important.

David Torrence, important guy with inside knowledge.

'Coevett', just another message board troll with a pointless existence.

rekrunner wrote:

Some stats about how common (or rare) sub-12:50 was:

Post ABP, only one race was sub-12:50 -- Paris 2012

That's part of the point here, another part is that that happened six years ago.

In addition, there hasn't even been a single sub-13 in this year yet.

Best times per year in this decase (I posted something like that last last week...):

2018: 13:01.09

2017: 12:55.23

2016: 12:59.29

2015: 12:53.98 [Diack's reign ended]

2014: 12:54.83 [the IAAF bribery scandal broke]

2013: 12:51.34

2012: 12:46.81

2011: 12:53.11

(I hope I didn't overlook anything)

Last decade, over 14 years ago, we saw a 12:37, literally unthinkable nowadays, despite the fancy super shoes and Monaco track and alter-G treadmill etc.