PLEASE DISCUSS. I was labeled a Return Policy Abuser at a running shoe store because I had 4 or 5 returns.

Next time take a dump in the shoes before you return them

Scorpion_runner wrote:

A particular running shoe store has flagged my account, stating that I abused their running shoe policy. Their policy is that a runner can return a running shoe within 30 days regardless of what shape it is in. Over the span of 2 to 3 years I have returned 5 pair of shoes at the store, and I returned them in BRAND NEW CONDITION, and I returned them because they caused discomfort in my knee or back.

If a customer can't find something within 2-3 tries, it's been my experience that nothing will work for them. Not another store, not shopping around online, not inserts, nothing.

The purpose of a shoe is not to "fix" a runner. The purpose of the shoes is to protect an already healthy runner; some people need more than others, and some people need some help from a shoe or insert that's not their norm while they get back to where they need to be.

I suspect that the shoes are not causing you discomfort in the knee or back, but rather you have chronic knee or back pain. You may have had a shoe in the past that coincided with having less pain, but that's all it is; a coincidence.

dude it's a running shoe, don't overthink this. This is what pisses me off about running culture, it's not about the technology you use it's about the training. My high school coach used to run with us in New Balance 624's... quit overthinking it

Troll Hunter wrote:

3.) Lack of Hubris (bragging about running sub 18 1.5 years from now, claiming good running form with scoliosis)

Hubris

Scorpion_runner wrote:

My running mechanics are solid ( seriously, I get compliments all the time, .)

As self-absorbed as James Comey.

Vazee is the 890 now, the breath model was just a gimmick upper - The 890 is the same shoe that the Vazee pace was. They still make the pureGrit by the way and if they stop... it's essentially the Cadence with a trail outsole.

Dr Phil wrote:

Troll Hunter wrote:

3.) Lack of Hubris (bragging about running sub 18 1.5 years from now, claiming good running form with scoliosis)

Hubris

Scorpion_runner wrote:

My running mechanics are solid ( seriously, I get compliments all the time, .)

As self-absorbed as James Comey.

Yeah....I realized it when I hit "submit post" and hoped nobody would notice. Meant to either just say "hubris" or "lack of humility" and biffed it something fierce.

Scorpion_runner wrote:

There is a reason why the Tarahumara create running shoes out of tires.

...

Yeah to protect the bottom of their feet... rubber is not good at shock absorption at all. Look up shock absorption of Rubber vs EVA vs other foams, Rubber is the worst but it's the most durable... why it's only used for the outsole

The OP is a picky abuser with a fetish for clean, fresh shoes that must be like new every day. If he is truly a black guy, then he's racist to boot. That's obvious because he brought up the race card. Hell, a white guy would be tagged as an abuser the third time around, that's not even arguable unless one is a sissified totally brainwashed social justice warrior who believes only white people can do wrong.

calm down wrote:

Scorpion_runner wrote:

There is a reason why the Tarahumara create running shoes out of tires.

...

Yeah to protect the bottom of their feet... rubber is not good at shock absorption at all. Look up shock absorption of Rubber vs EVA vs other foams, Rubber is the worst but it's the most durable... why it's only used for the outsole

This is incorrect. Rubber is great at vibration control and shock absorption. Why do you think the best phone cases are made out of RUBBER and not plastic or foam? A lot of plastics and foams are subject to breaking and cracking, while rubber bends in normal environment conditions. It's the same reason why rubber mats are used in the gym to absorb the impact of heavy weights hitting the ground. You can also add rubber tumbling mats to that as well.

Rubber is one of the best materials on the planet at lessening force impact, and maintaining durability while doing it.

One of the reasons why scientist went to making synthetic polymers like foam, plastic, etc , is because rubber ( a natural material) became hard to acquire during WW1 and WW2 . Actually, a lot of natural materials became hard to acquire during those war periods.

Take a shoe like the Kinvara, which has a sole that is mostly foam and compare it to a shoe like the NB Zante, which has a sole that is all rubber, and there will be a huge difference in vibration control and shock absorption. The Kinvara will be lighter, but it will not have the same impact control as the Zante.

And you know this from the 10 miles you ran in each of them before you returned them? again you're looking too much into this, Just go out and run... why put so much emphasis on the shock absorption when you aren't even running?

Scorpion_runner wrote:

[quote]Ggdaqeycsar wrote:

I just don't understand why returning running shoes in BRAND NEW CONDITION would be a problem when the runner has to test them out...

You don't really know if a shoe is going to work or not until you put it on the road for some miles. Running around in a store for a few minutes is one thing, but running on the road or treadmill for 10 miles is another.

Yeah but you didn't return them brand new. You ran in them for 10 miles...on a treadmill doesn't matter. If the store is ethical, they can't sell them as new...ie, they can't sell them. By all means, take them up on their stated policy, but the idea that you have a right to try something out for a week and then change your mind (uhhh, 5 different times) is laughable.

You sound sincerely upset about this and your intentions were not aimed at getting away with something. Hopefully talking to the store some more will help and maybe get you another chance.

Also sounds like you have a terrible time finding shoes. Maybe you had an amazing pair in the past and nothing is comparing. You are probably picky - I am too so I'm not knocking it.

Maybe they aren't fitting you very well too, sounds like you need some help there. I have noticed that running stores now will fit you into whatever you want - ever since minimalism/maximalism became popular I noticed that they let you guide them more than before. Part of me likes that, but part of me just wants an expert to tell me what is going to work for me.

Good luck with the store and with finding some shoes that work -

You're telling me foam breaks and cracks when you bend it? That is not my experience with foam.

A lot of times these mats are made out of EVA foam...just like the midsole of shoes. The rubber is used in cases where the durability is more important (like with heavy weights), but if you're just looking for shock absorption first and foremost you go with EVA foam.

All of the rubber on the bottom of every pair of shoes you've run in in the last 10 years uses synthetic rubber. Not natural rubber. You think people are out harvesting gum trees for your Zantes? No. It's not a natural material.

In my experience the Kinvara was softer and more forgiving than the Zante, so I don't know what you're on about.

Saying "plastic and foam" have similar properties is dumb. Saying shoes should be made exclusive out of a material because all the best phone cases are made from it is also dumb.

I'd flag you as well, regardless of race, creed, etc. You remind me of people I use to see that would buy custom expensive paint, use 90% of the can, then return it claiming the paint didn't do its job.

If you are returning that many shoes in a 2 year period, something is seriously wrong with you, not the shoe or store. I suggest the next time you actually DO find something that "works" for you, that you buy 3-4 pairs immediately and quit being a pain-in-the-rear to the retailer.

I have to agree. I mean there are certainly other factors that may be at play here, but I have only ever returned 2 pairs of shoes in my life. I'm sure if you asked most other people, they would say the same thing. Both were because I made the mistake of trying on new shoes after a run and then having my foot go back to its normal size and the shoe being far too large. I never actually wore those shoes on a run, I tried them on the next day and took them back and just got a smaller size.

Having been in a place where running was at times tortuous, I can tell you, you need to either go to a run coach or a physician and figure out what is wrong with you and why running is painful. My guess, your form is garbage, and you're running in shoes that contribute to your garbage form. I recommend anyone who suffers from running related pain take a deep look at themselves and fix what is wrong. It's often not the shoe, the watch, the shorts, the weather, it's them. Don't buy the minimalist garbage (nobody should run in a pair of Nike Frees) but you also don't need to be in a 45 mm Hoka. Try something in between that is comfortable but not a tank. Run shorter distances at faster, more efficient paces.

And if you feel like you've been wronged just don't shop at that store and make a fuss about it. I'm sure they have their reasons, but that doesn't mean you need to be happy about them.

Going forward don't buy a shoe from a "fit expert" either. They are going to sell you the fanciest most high tech shoe. Buying shoes at a store is like buying a car, if you ask the dealer, you're walking out with the Super Deluxe Safety Package that you don't really need. Do your research before you go in, tell them what you want and buy that shoe. There are plenty of resources online to provide you with information about what shoe you should be in, don't listen to the 40 year old hobby jogger who could either flip burgers or work at Runners Depot.

Scorpion_runner i want to commend your maturity level and willingness to listen to the posters who replied to you. You asked a question thinking that the store was in the wrong. When the majority of people disagreed you politely accepted their responses. You thought you were just following the return policy of the store but now you can see it more clearly from their perspective. Kudos to you!

I don’t get why we commend stupidity nowadays...

Scorpion_buttface wrote:

I don’t get why we commend stupidity nowadays...

Stupidity would be to berate all the people telling him was in the wrong and continue to perform the same actions.

Scorpion was ignorant to the fact that he was indeed an abuser of the store's policy. He looked for an opinion and when that opinion did not line up with his actions he accepted that. Unlike most people on here who would go on and on arguing back why they were still right.

If you're having that much trouble finding a shoe that fits go with RRS as they allow returns with miles as part of one of the levels. I don't use them anymore but I believe it's only a few dollars for the first yr. Find a shoe brand/division that works and then go to your local store and purchase them after your membership is finished.