You do have to wonder why he didn't skip town if he was glowing courtesy of that notice...because previous tests had been "taken care of" thanks to the bribes? Also given some time they could make him miss 3 tests if need be.
Having said that now that the advance notice has been confirmed he's off the hook. Whoever leaked that knew that was coming, like the Froome case...
Jsjsj wrote:
FWIW: think of this way, what is more likely? A dirty testing agent goes rogue and shakes down innocent people for fear of spiking ? Or that he works with dopers and replaces samples.
Clearly, there would be 100s of whistleblowers if innocent people were getting shook down and they would all come to Kiprop’s defense now.
Great point.
Burnsy wrote:
Keep in mind this isn’t a “quick” response. He (and his agent and manager) was notified in February, and has had 3 months to plot out how he was going to play this.
That was a potential blunder in this statement. It reveals that any “shock” he or the Rosas express is a lie.
Good point as well.
The Rosa's statement doesn't square too well with finding this out in February. From the Guardian:
Kiprop’s agent, Frederico Rosa, told the Guardian he had “heard the rumours as well” but did not have any other information. “I need to wait when I know the real story,” he said.
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/may/02/athletics-olympic-champion-asbel-kiprop-tests-positive-drug-epo-kenyanSubway Surfers Addiction wrote:
Ion4 wrote:
Doesn't really add up, does it?
So he was bribed in November, said nothing for over 6 months, known of the positive for some 3 months said nothing. The media hears about it, next day 'oh it's extortion.'
I’m assuming he was waiting on the B sample results to come back “negative” before saying anything or moving on because there’s “no story”. Isn’t there supposed to be some rule against release of A sample results before B ones?
Subway Surfers Addiction wrote:
Ion4 wrote:
Doesn't really add up, does it?
So he was bribed in November, said nothing for over 6 months, known of the positive for some 3 months said nothing. The media hears about it, next day 'oh it's extortion.'
I do not mean to single you out, but it is amazing how many of you, as there are many others here, who cannot even do rudimentary arithmetic.
Jsjsj wrote:
I believe Kiprop told a fairly accurate version of events. Which is why he came out with it so quickly. He omitted the fact that he doped though.
Here is how I see it going down:
Kiprop KNOWS the people from previous dealings (he said that himself). No reason for guys who were previously straight and narrow to all of a sudden turn on you unless they were never straight.
So I see it like — the guys knew he doped.
They called him the day before to make sure he would have the money.
He says yes come by.
When they get there, they ask for more money than agreed upon this time for whatever reason and Kiprop disagrees. Maybe an argument.
In fact, Kiprop probably told him that was all he had. In which they told him to go get whatever cash he had in the house — otherwise, they would have just asked him to wire more.
So, he gets the cash or says he doesn’t have any and they simply seal his actual sample.
So, he’s telling the truth about one thing: he tested positive because he didn’t pay enough money, but he was paying to erase dirt, not prevent dirt from being added.
FWIW: think of this way, what is more likely? A dirty testing agent goes rogue and shakes down innocent people for fear of spiking ? Or that he works with dopers and replaces samples.
Clearly, there would be 100s of whistleblowers if innocent people were getting shook down and they would all come to Kiprop’s defense now.
This is about right, in my opinion. Assuming he's telling the truth about measurable facts (phone call, money out), this makes decent sense.
He gets a call. The next day he sends money. Sample is positive. That's all we actually know.
Sounds like a deal gone bad.
They get you anyway they can, if you don't play their game. Who cares if the drug they spike with, doesn't make any sense anyway?
Marion Jones denied it to the end too. It means nothing either way. I'm waiting for the A sample.
It is not uncommon for a sample-collector to call ahead of time before an "unannounced" visit. Don't think for a minute this happens in Africa only or that it's simply a way to tip someone off.
I was at a training camp in Irvine, California and a tester called because the athlete I coach wasn't at his home in Ojai, California. The tester never bothered to check the whereabouts that he had input, which showed said athlete was at a camp in Irvine. The tester apologized and asked for us to delay our training nearly 3 hours. Instead, the entire team got their workout in as I waited with the athlete due to the incompetence of this USADA blowhard. We should have told the guy to go f himself as you are not required to wait around for a sample-collector who has made amateur mistakes.
People on the outside looking in think USADA/WADA or any other anti-doping national organization is always doing things exactly as THEIR OWN RULES specify. Nothing could be further from the truth. They are lazy. They are sloppy. And they have just as many scumbags working for them as their are scumbag cheating athletes. No surprise.
What is Paul Scott doing in Kenya anyway?
wejo wrote:
Burnsy wrote:
Keep in mind this isn’t a “quick” response. He (and his agent and manager) was notified in February, and has had 3 months to plot out how he was going to play this.
That was a potential blunder in this statement. It reveals that any “shock” he or the Rosas express is a lie.
Good point as well.
The Rosa's statement doesn't square too well with finding this out in February. From the Guardian:
Wejo, I think I can explain that -- but only under very cynical assumptions.
Suppose that:
1. There are LOTS of situations just like this, that agents/managers in-the-know will learn of routinely -- because there is lots of doping going on. Pick your favorite way of inferring there is more doping than we hear about in the news.
2. (a more solid assumption) Few of these events actually become public knowledge.
Then,
3. The Rosas are not surprised that there is doping; maybe they really did learn about it in February. They are still surprised now, because they did not expect news of doping to become public. They are not waiting to learn more. They are waiting to learn what is known by others, so that they know what lies will be plausible.
Cynical? Yes, very. A bit of a conspiracy theory? Maybe. Backed by solid evidence? ...No, clearly not. Purely speculative, but not inconsistent with what I've read so far.
Asbel Kiprop wrote:
I am told EPO is put into the body using injection.
Hahaha. I am told that there are drugs one can take to improve athletic performance.
Very true. If I were judge and jury, I would be inclined to believe Asbel. Not agreeing with Kiprop’s claim, but it isn’t as absurd as everyone thinks. I am American, my wife is Kenyan, and bribes in Kenya are common. Much like our last trip...have to Pay the state official to get them to process pension paperwork for my deceased father in-law so his wife can get the benefit and having to pay the police officer their ‘fee’ for pulling my wife over and not giving a traffic citation. That’s their way of doing business. Maybe Kiprop didn’t give them enough....crazy?? I wonder...
The case is dead and buried. Basically his lawyer introduced reasonable doubt in Kiprop's culpability.As we know in a criminal case ,the case has to be proven beyond reasonable doubt.
The only good that will come out of this story is that now WADA and IAAF know where to look .They have been clueless thus far always seeming to be groping in the dark.
Colgate. wrote:
Too much to read.
Has there been any mention of toothpaste?
No, but he made out with a transvestite hooker who was using ego as lip gloss.
I am an official official wrote:
LRC Note: We're merging two threads on this
Well Kiprop's response is bonkers.
LRC Note we're posting Kiprop's full statement here and have our article below
MY STATEMENTASBEL KIPROP3RD MAY 2018NOTICE OF SAMPLE COLLECTIONI have noted the main media reports alleging that I have doped. I have also noted social media comments on the allegation. I vehemently deny any doping. I have remained faithful to my anti-doping convictions and I will be the last person to commit such an atrocious un-sports like thing. I recall that in 2016 I supported conviction of people guilty of doping. I have built for myself a clean sports career since 2007 and I cannot throw it away with such an act.I am reluctantly responding to the main media and social media comments for lack of choice. The allegations are still under investigation and inquiry and I wish the comments could have awaited its finalization. I however note the overwhelming interest from all and sundry to know my reaction to the allegation. I also note that if I do not react persons of less than good will might treat it as true, and pass judgment.On 26th November 2017 I was notified by way of telephone call from an anti-doping agent, Mr. Simon Karugu “Mburu” to be available for doping test on 27th November 2017 at my disclosed whereabouts, by then Iten. I availed myself. Messers Paul Scott and Simon Karugu “Mburu” came into the house alone being Doping Control Officers. I know them from previous samplings. They arrived when I was still sleeping at 7.50am to collect the urine sample, and left slightly past 8.20am after the urine sample was sealed. I declared my flu medication when the sample was being taken. I was in the house with a house-mate, a Mr. Kevin.It is to be noted that under World Anti-Doping Rules I was not supposed to be given notice of the intended visit to collect the sample, especially where the test is “out of competition” like this one.The sample was collected when I was not in any competition. This sampling is called “out-of-competition”. My next and planned competition was to be on 4th May 2018 in Doha Qatar.If I had wanted to dope then it would be less than clever to dope 7 months (in November 2017) long before my planned competition [in May 2018], when I would need the boost.Further if I had any dope substance in my system then I would not make myself available for the sampling on 27th November 2017 having been given notice on 26th November 2017 of the intended visit for the sample collection. I could choose to miss the collection without any consequences. Consequences for missing sampling meeting arise only after missing 3 times. I had not missed previously.I am told EPO is put into the body using injection. The last time I had an injection was in 2014 when I was given a yellow fever vaccination before travelling to Bahamas for a competition.Monetary extortionAfter the Doping Control Officers [Mr. Paul Scott and Mr. Simon Karugu “Mburu”] arrived at 7.50am, and after I had given them the urine sample Mr. Simon Karugu “Mburu” asked [for the first time in their visits] if I could give them some money. He did not specify how much they needed. At 8.11am I forwarded to them money through Mr. Simon Karugu “Mburu”’s phone using M-Pesa. As a police officer I found it wise to send by M-Pesa for record. I did not at the time expect that the request for the money had anything to do with the sample. At that time I did not see the money as inducement or bribe for anything. I gave it in good faith thinking they may have some need known to them. In retrospect I now clearly see the money as having a relation with the sample collected on that date, and even the irregular advance notice I was given. Mr. Simon Karugu “Mburu” acknowledged verbally and audibly receiving the M-pesa money while he was seated next to Mr. Paul Scott.I remain perplexed on how my innocent sample could turn positive on the only time when money was extorted from me. It is not beyond my suspicion that my sample turned positive because I might have remitted less money than I was expected to remit.After I had supplied the required urine into initial vessel I left the sample on the table where Paul Scott and Simon karugu “Mburu” were seated to go to my bedroom to look for cash money upon their request. However I subsequently decided to use M-Pesa. When I went to my bedroom to collect the cash I left the urine sample, open, on the sitting room, where as stated above, messers Paul Scott and Mr. Simon Karugu were seated with the samples. The M-Pesa was delivered when I was still at the bedroom.I don’t know if my sample was interfered with while I was at the bedroom.I don’t know if the amount I remitted could have been less than what was expected from me, and if it caused annoyance that may have resulted in the contamination of the sample.After I came out of the bedroom my urine sample was split into 2 other containers [sample “A” and sample “B”] then sealed at 8.20am. Both Doping Officers left shortly after sealing the sample at 8.20am. They left probably around 8.30am.The money I was asked for was remitted 9 minutes [at 8.11am] before the samples were sealed [at 8.20am].I have been asked to admit and be rewarded with ambassadorial roleWhen I was told for the 1st time that my sample turned positive on 3rd February 2018 [4 months after sample collection on 27thNovember 2017] I was extremely shocked. I was however very confident the mistake alleging I doped would be noted and I would be cleared. The nightmare has continued. However my faith in God, my trust in the goodness of humanity, and my clear conscience continue to sustain me. I do not seek any favors on the matter. I only yearn for fairness and justice beyond all schemes, politics, and machinations. I insist I am innocent even if I am forsaken.I was told the process of investigation and evaluating the question of whether or not there was any dope in my sample would be confidential. I have seen one of the media outlet’s reference to AIU. I am therefore surprised at how the handlers of the issue have let it out to the main media and social media and to subject me to mob trial with a narrative designed to reflect me as guilty without my side of the story being reflected including all the above I have explained.I have been asked to admit that I doped so that I would be made an ambassador of I.A.A.F on anti-doping. I have refused, as this is not only untrue but also a fraud. I do not need absolution on the allegations.I have also noted individuals I held in the highest esteem lie out rightly about what they did and what they saw. This includes as to [how many people came into my house on 27th November 2017, the money received, that I was not given advance notice, about the open sample left in their care, about a 3rd party holding the lid to the sample’s vessel, where I was in the morning of the collection of the sample etc]. Others have suppressed clear facts very unfortunately.I pray to be given the benefit of doubt even as I am cast into this lonely isolation. I know it may be impossible to defend myself from any accuser who has made up his mind and who would view my protestations as a mere denial. I however pray that all and sundry of good-will do not hasten to summarily make negative assumptions and judgment about me. I grave to be seen for who I am, what I have stood for and what I represent. However for the determined, before God and before man, I am innocent. I did not dope. I do not labour under the weight of the shame of doping._ENDS_ASBEL KIPROP
http://www.letsrun.com/news/2018/05/asbel-kiprop-releases-detailed-statement-innocence-explosive-allegations-breaches-testing-protocols/Original tweet linked to:
https://twitter.com/MichKatami/status/992052662463029249
This absolutely sucks.
I'm not sure why, it feels true, I'm inclined to believe him...
Oh Please wrote:
Jsjsj wrote:
I believe Kiprop told a fairly accurate version of events. Which is why he came out with it so quickly. He omitted the fact that he doped though.
Here is how I see it going down:
Kiprop KNOWS the people from previous dealings (he said that himself). No reason for guys who were previously straight and narrow to all of a sudden turn on you unless they were never straight.
So I see it like — the guys knew he doped.
They called him the day before to make sure he would have the money.
He says yes come by.
When they get there, they ask for more money than agreed upon this time for whatever reason and Kiprop disagrees. Maybe an argument.
In fact, Kiprop probably told him that was all he had. In which they told him to go get whatever cash he had in the house — otherwise, they would have just asked him to wire more.
So, he gets the cash or says he doesn’t have any and they simply seal his actual sample.
So, he’s telling the truth about one thing: he tested positive because he didn’t pay enough money, but he was paying to erase dirt, not prevent dirt from being added.
FWIW: think of this way, what is more likely? A dirty testing agent goes rogue and shakes down innocent people for fear of spiking ? Or that he works with dopers and replaces samples.
Clearly, there would be 100s of whistleblowers if innocent people were getting shook down and they would all come to Kiprop’s defense now.
+1
The above quote is what I figure the "truer" story is.
I don't buy the story that people just ask to borrow money and it's customary to give it for no reason. In fact it would open himself up to further blackmail, as the testers could have simply accused him of trying to bribe them, and "here's the proof!"
I'd also like to know if EPO could be added to a sample and whether it would "look" the same as if it had been metabolized via injection. I get the feeling that spiking a urine sample to look like doping is not as simple as squirting some EPO in the container.
Agreed with all above.
I think standard procedure all the other times was he left the room and they switched his sample with a clean one. Does anyone know if they'll then retrospectively test his samples to see if they're all his? Although maybe he had his own clean samples from different times actually.
Either way - if he's telling the truth surely there are DNA samples or something where they can tell if a) it was mixed in or b) it was someone else's dirty sample
Can't wait for ross tucker to weigh in
icrlp05 wrote:
Oh Please wrote:
+1
The above quote is what I figure the "truer" story is.
I don't buy the story that people just ask to borrow money and it's customary to give it for no reason. In fact it would open himself up to further blackmail, as the testers could have simply accused him of trying to bribe them, and "here's the proof!"
I'd also like to know if EPO could be added to a sample and whether it would "look" the same as if it had been metabolized via injection. I get the feeling that spiking a urine sample to look like doping is not as simple as squirting some EPO in the container.
Agreed with all above.
I think standard procedure all the other times was he left the room and they switched his sample with a clean one. Does anyone know if they'll then retrospectively test his samples to see if they're all his? Although maybe he had his own clean samples from different times actually.
Either way - if he's telling the truth surely there are DNA samples or something where they can tell if a) it was mixed in or b) it was someone else's dirty sample
Can't wait for ross tucker to weigh in
Perhaps the normal MO is like in American Beauty. Usually keeps a frozen clean sample in the freezer, then defrosts it overnight when he gets the warning call.
"If I had wanted to dope then it would be less than clever to dope 7 months (in November 2017) long before my planned competition [in May 2018], when I would need the boost."
Seems like a poor choice of word, 'need'.
Gives the impression that at other times, the boost is necessary.
icrlp05 wrote:
Can't wait for ross tucker to weigh in
I don’t mean to be flippant - Kiprop for EPO is a massive story - but there’s always some surprise when a top, top athlete is actually caught for doping. We all know that what is revealed is the tip of the proverbial iceberg.
Korir (hon wesley): #Rosamustgo when can we say enough is enough ? 90% of good Kenyan athletes got with doping have come from one agency. I am now making it my duty that Rosa and associates are kicked out of Kenya and never allowed to represent Kenyan athletes it is now or never. Get ready !!
Asbel Kiprop’s statement on his EPO positive. It boils down to: He paid a bribe to doping officials not knowing it was a bribe, but didn’t pay enough (he wasn’t told this), so they contaminated his sample. He then got told to confess to doping in order to be made an ambassador… // There’d be a record of this payment, of course. The extortion part I can actually believe - they call him up the night before with a tip-off that they’re coming to do a test, they expect a little gratitude. The rest of the dots need a little more creativity (or something) to join. // So the tip-off happened. That’s the least surprising part of Kiprop's defense statement - getting a tip-off is a big reason athletes have wanted to train there (& in Ethiopia). Also true that Kiprop paid. Also not surprising. I wonder how many payments and from how many athletes?
The AIU has confirmed that the Doping Control Assistant involved in testing Mr Kiprop on 27
November 2017 (who is known to Mr Kiprop) admitted that he provided Mr Kiprop with
advanced notice of the testing that was to take place on that date. This is extremely
disappointing. The AIU has submitted to the Tribunal that these actions may constitute a
departure from the requirements of the International Standard for Testing and Investigations
(“ISTI”). Under the Rules, a departure from the requirements of the ISTI will only invalidate
an Adverse Analytical Finding if that departure could reasonably have caused the Adverse
Analytical Finding. The advanced notice of testing given by the Doping Control Assistant
could not reasonably have caused EPO to be present in Mr Kiprop’s Sample and, as such,
the departure does not invalidate the Adverse Analytical Finding. This will ultimately be a
matter for the Tribunal to determine.