This was an amazing performances and should be celebrated.
Just to put it in perspective, Bernard Lagat told me the day after he ran his 3:52 mile at the 2005 Millrose Games (the fastest mile ever run in Madison Square Garden) that he wanted to break the world indoor record that season. He tried but barely broke 3:50 (3:49.89 the next week in Arkansas).
PrZ wrote:
What? If indoors is faster than outdoors, then why has nobody run 3:43-44 indoors? El G’s indoor world record is 5+ seconds slower than his outdoor world record. That theory isn’t as applicable as you think it is.
Those saying that the difference between the speed of indoors and outdoor tracks being negligible, are absolutely correct. I don’t believe there would be a difference of any more than 0.5sec had he run that same race with the same splits on an outdoor 400 track in good conditions yesterday. Moreover, just as with outdoor tracks, some indoor tracks are faster than others. Had he run on a different indoor track yesterday, he would likely have been slower.
The reason EL G ran a mile faster outdoors than indoors, is that he chose, like the vast majority of athletes do, to use the indoor scene as a guide to how training is going and as a stepping stone to reaching a peak 6 months later for a far more important major outdoor championship.
When he ran his 3:48.45 WR indoors he was. It in 3:43 form!
However, some athletes, who maybe know the chances of winning gold against all the rest of the world being at a peak in August, are unlikely, will aim to reach a peak, or at least a mini peak, for the indoor season in February. Coghlan was one such runner and that was why he never ran faster for a mile outdoors than his indoor pb. Cheserek could likely be a similar athlete, which is made all the more likely as he is not eligible, at present, to run in championship events in the summer due to not having a national allegiance.
Rojo is correct in suggesting that Cheserek would run a similar time for a mile right now outdoors. He has chosen to be in 3:49 form in February. That is all we can take from this race. In August he might be in similar shape, but it certainly doesn’t mean he’s going to be 5 secs faster in the summer.
Typo.
Meant to be:-
‘When El G ran 3:48.45 indoors, he wasn’t in 3:43 form! The 5 sec difference between these performances is not due to the tracks he ran them on.
Amazing run by King Ches!
Need to say that the way the LRC article was written about Ches and his sub-3:50 attempt was very different from the way you all wrote about Rupp's sub-3:50 attempt. It just felt like the Ches article was just written to tell us why it's less impressive than it seems. Rupp had an identical scenario. You can say that Rupp was in a "race" but he never had to battle for position -- it was a chance for Rupp to see what he could run in "perfect conditions."
A 3:49 mile is good for the sport. When Galen Rupp runs 3:50 the article and commentary is about how special of a talent he is. Ches runs 3:49 and the article brings up a whole bunch of flaws -- there was no field, nobody good runs indoors, his mile PR is slower than 40 people, he had perfect pacing and conditions. Why can't the article just say, damn, that was a fast mile.
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Rojo -
Do you really think downplaying the #2 time ever run in the MILE, the distance that casual fans or non-track fans care about, is good for the sport?
The Angel of Death wrote:
Rojo -
Do you really think downplaying the #2 time ever run in the MILE, the distance that casual fans or non-track fans care about, is good for the sport?
Am I the only that senses some veiled racism from the way Rojo talks about Cheserek?
Maybe I’m wrong, but that’s ceetainlt what it seems like.
My takeaway in this is that the article refers to a packed house of 1000+ fans. Hard to find less than that in a high school girls volleyball match or a sophomore basketball game. This was a gimmick, a time trial. Yes he ran fast, but 3:49 was run in 1983 indoors. This is anything but earth shattering. Track and field is being used to showcase athletics in a way that Bill Veeck promoted baseball. A circus stunt. Let's have high jumpers land in a pit of jello or see what the high hurdles record can be on a track made of sand. Why no 60 meter dash with just one competitor??
I appreciate your analysis, Rojo, we are all entitled to our own take. I’m simply inspired by this race. I love that I’ve run for such a long time and can still feel such excitement and know that my desire to train as smart and hard as I can is replenished yet again. A good effort always does this for me and this one is majestic. Nike’s Sub-2, Kenny’s Berlin - come from behind and dominate, Alan Webb in high school, Ben Johnson in ‘88 before the fall (I’m Canadian), Eamonn Coughlan and Steve Scott indoors in the early ‘80’s (seen through Sports Illustrated’s technicolour filter) and now Ches and a 3:49.44. I’m going to bask in this glow, use it as motivation and love that our sport continues to excite and invigorate.
I thought Barnum and Bailey quit touring? Now we have the King Chez tour, and the New Balance Invite organizers got on board.
Track had it right in 1964
when Tom O'Hare (or maybe O'Hara) ran a world record indoor mile in front of 14,000 at the old Chicago Stadium, a true race too. Not much slower than Chez's staged time trial yesterday.
Hmmmmmmm..... wrote:
The Angel of Death wrote:
Rojo -
Do you really think downplaying the #2 time ever run in the MILE, the distance that casual fans or non-track fans care about, is good for the sport?
Am I the only that senses some veiled racism from the way Rojo talks about Cheserek?
Maybe I’m wrong, but that’s ceetainlt what it seems like.
"This" as the internet would say. Wheating got a front page for retiring when the last seven years of his career has been, by his own admission, not up to par, but the day after Cheserek/Kipchoge/Who-Knows-Who-Else runs really staggering times, they have their accomplishments minimalized?
Thought it was the NB meet. My mistake, but still....not a race by any means. A glorified time trial.
This is a race.....not what happened at BU last night.
Circus guy wrote:
This is a race.....not what happened at BU last night.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vILN1xjV-rI
How can you not run a world record when you have Beatlemania girls screaming like that?
Actually that race is similar to Ches', with a pacemaker through the half, except O'Hara got to chase lapped runners as well.
It's easier to run fast in a race than a time trial. If he is chasing Kiprop and Manangoi, Edward runs 3:46.
Ches > Coe indoors. Love it.
Circus guy wrote:
This is a race.....not what happened at BU last night.
Give me a break. It's not Cheserek's fault that no one else in America is fast enough to run with him for an entire race. If he had won a competitive race in 3:55, then Rojo and people like you would undermine his performance by saying that Cheserek isn't that fast. But he is that fast and you undermine his performance by saying that, well, he didn't do it in a "real" race. No.
Great run by Ches.
The remarks about age are funny. He's not 24. He's 26, maybe 27. He was 19 as a high school soph, anyone who saw him in person back then could not honestly say he didn't look about 20 at that time. Talented as hell, but also older than what he claims.
He's a great runner but this time trial merely proves how fast that track is, never mind Ches's talent. But of course more than a few true world class milers in the same situation would have run faster, including all three Rio medalists. Put Ches in a race outdoors with a pack of fifteen specialists at the 1500 and between all the jockeying for position, elbowing, etc. and he'd have a harder time running 3:49. Not that he couldn't do it, but he'd be wiped out at the finish.
Ches is probably hoping this campaign of his will somehow get "sponsors" to fast track citizenship for him.
Just think if Chez had my big butt long nose on his face. Yes ,with my huge beak on his face ,he would have broken the record. Man I hope whoever is coaching that boy is taking care of him 200%. Think I'd have SWAT teams and Medical teams driving along side of him on long runs. Time to fly Chez!
Deanouk wrote:
PrZ wrote:
What? If indoors is faster than outdoors, then why has nobody run 3:43-44 indoors? El G’s indoor world record is 5+ seconds slower than his outdoor world record. That theory isn’t as applicable as you think it is.
Those saying that the difference between the speed of indoors and outdoor tracks being negligible, are absolutely correct. I don’t believe there would be a difference of any more than 0.5sec had he run that same race with the same splits on an outdoor 400 track in good conditions yesterday. Moreover, just as with outdoor tracks, some indoor tracks are faster than others. Had he run on a different indoor track yesterday, he would likely have been slower.
The reason EL G ran a mile faster outdoors than indoors, is that he chose, like the vast majority of athletes do, to use the indoor scene as a guide to how training is going and as a stepping stone to reaching a peak 6 months later for a far more important major outdoor championship.
When he ran his 3:48.45 WR indoors he was. It in 3:43 form!
However, some athletes, who maybe know the chances of winning gold against all the rest of the world being at a peak in August, are unlikely, will aim to reach a peak, or at least a mini peak, for the indoor season in February. Coghlan was one such runner and that was why he never ran faster for a mile outdoors than his indoor pb. Cheserek could likely be a similar athlete, which is made all the more likely as he is not eligible, at present, to run in championship events in the summer due to not having a national allegiance.
Rojo is correct in suggesting that Cheserek would run a similar time for a mile right now outdoors. He has chosen to be in 3:49 form in February. That is all we can take from this race. In August he might be in similar shape, but it certainly doesn’t mean he’s going to be 5 secs faster in the summer.
There can be a huge difference between indoor and outdoor tracks depending on the facility, the construction of the track, materials, etc. In this case, with this track, it may be an instance of the track being slightly faster than outdoors. It probably is. Wilson Kipketer, after setting the indoor 800m WR said he felt that the track he ran on when setting that record was probably faster than most outdoor tracks. That's probably true at more than one facility these days.
That said, Ches is probably capable of running a bit faster outdoors in a race against true 1500m runners who will mop the floor with him over the last 200m. Running in a packed field of milers even in a rabbited race is not the same as this time trial. Look at Makhloufi running a 1:44 800 as part of a training session (it's on Youtube) and then later in an interview explaining that's it's easier to do that (following his coach who was on a bicycle) than trying to run that time in a race with people around you moving in and out etc.
Coghlan's indoor success and his indoor PR being his best under all conditions was due more to financial reward at the time. El G certainly wasn't in 3:43 form when he set the indoor WR. Probably closer to 3:46/47.
YMMV wrote:
Circus guy wrote:
This is a race.....not what happened at BU last night.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vILN1xjV-rIHow can you not run a world record when you have Beatlemania girls screaming like that?
Actually that race is similar to Ches', with a pacemaker through the half, except O'Hara got to chase lapped runners as well.
It's easier to run fast in a race than a time trial. If he is chasing Kiprop and Manangoi, Edward runs 3:46.
What an idiot. Have you ever even raced? A time trial is far "easier" than an actual race. What a PC moron. Likely a hasbarat to boot.