Norwegian runner Sondre Moen 59:47 in Valencia half. 3rd best half by a non-african ever

And finally October, Always in Sestriere :

Sunday 1 (Valle Argentera) :

6 x 3 km on rough road (recovery 2'45" >< 2'55" jogging) in : 8'57" uphill - 8'40" downhill - 9'19" uphill - 8'54" downhill -

9'16" uphill - 8'46" downhill. The difference between start and finish in altitude is about 100m.

Thursday 5 (Valle Argentera) : 30 km in 1:36'39" (average 3'13"4) with the last 5 km in 15'36"

Sunday 8 (Track) :

7 x 2000m (rec. 2'52" >< 2'56") in : 5'50"4 - 5'50"7 - 5'52"7 - 5'53"0 - 5'51"2 - 5'50"7 - 5'51"2

Wednesday 11 (Valle Argentera) :

6 km + 5 km + 4 km + 3 km + 2 km + 1 km (recovering 2'50" >< 2'55") in :

18'53" uphill - 14'49" downhill - 12'49" uphill - 8'49" downhill - 6'14" uphill - 2'53" downhill

Saturday 14 (Sestriere, mixing on the road and on track) :

6 km (road) in 18'42" + 1 km in 3'37" + 5 x 400m (track) in 63" (recovering 200m n 52" >< 54") + 6 km (road) in 18'56" + 1 km in 3'39" + 5 x 200m (track) in 29"6 >< 30"2 (recovering 200m in 51" >< 53") (total 18.8 km continuous run)

Tuesday 17 (Track in Cantalupa, 450m altitude, good weather) :

2 x 3000m (rec. 2'55") in 8'41"3 - 8'38"8 (recovery 2'54") +

10 x 1200m (rec. 1'52" >< 1'54") in 3'20"9 - 3'22"5 - 3'22"3 - 3'22"1 - 3'21"3 - 3'20"7 - 3'21"0 - 3'20"8 - 3'20"6 - 3'19"2

I saw in this last training that Sondre could run around 1 hour, because was Always even in his pace in every test, showing easy action around 2'48" - 2'50" pace.

For this reason I told him to run with the leading Group (2'50" pace is exactly 59'47"...), without watch, because he needed to follow the feeling of his body, and not to think too much about the time.

Finally, which is our goal ?

It's to show that White runners, European or American or from Oceania, can run fast like African runners, if have good talent (maybe not the same of African, but in any case very good), if they decide to dedicate a part of their life to a REAL training, in the same conditions of African people.

The performance of Sondre comes after the same level reached by the twins Robertson, showing possible running fast, if their choice of life is to live for the most part of time in altitude, having continuity in training (something very few African have).

With continuity it's possible to fill the gap of pure talent between European and African top athletes.

Altitude changes physiological parameters of every athlete, if becomes a normal situation, and not only an ecception for short periods (what generally happens to Europeans, going altitude before the main competitions only).

Living and training with some of the best in the World, can give the opportunity to grow, and, if there is good talent, to increase the self confidence, understanding that athletes able running under 1 hour or under 2:07' in Marathon are products of the ambience and of a mentality that doesn't know limits (because the most part don't know anything about the level of athletic performances). Sondre in Kenya trained several times with Abel Kirui and Geoffrey Kirui, while in Europe Always was alone, and this fact gave him the right concentration for running alone the last 10 km in Valencia.

I'm curious to see, now that a White athlete was able to run like some of the best Africans, how White people consider this performance in relation with doping.

Because there are two possibilities only : or people think Sondre is doped (instead doesn't use any supplement, also legit), or has to stop thinking all Kenyans and Ethiopians running like Sondre are doped.

And, again, I hope many go to riconsider the fact that EPO can help athletes training in high altitude with continuity.

I think, and hope, Sondre doesn't finish to amaze people with his future performances, in Marathon too, since the big talent of this athlete is in his mind, and in his choice to dedicate some year of his life to the goal to run fast like Africans.

During the last period of 50 days in Sestriere, he was completely alone in a small apartment, cooking himself, driving the car for moving from Sestriere to Valle Argentera or Val Troncea (that are 10 km far from Sestriere) for every long and easy run (I followed him during specific workouts only). He paid all his training activity with his own money, and till now didn't have any big income for covering his expenditures (I hope from now something can change).

The real question is : How many Sondre there are in Europe or US, as physical talent ? Of sure, probably a big number, also if not the same of Africans. But, while ALL the African runners, with (or without...) talent, try to become professional athletes, HOW MANY WESTERN TALENTS ARE INTERESTED IN RUNNING AND ACCEPT TO HAVE A CHOICE OF LIFE SUCH AS SONDRE OR THE ROBERTSON TWINS ?

This is the real limit : not doping or something else, but the real MOTIVATION fore training at the higher level, making normal a situation that, for the great majority of people, is a situation of uncomfortableness that kills their interest in our discipline.

I will try Renato!!! Thank you for sharing this

In opposite I believe it`s possible for a "white" runner with very good talent to reach same levels and beyond,

with training only at sea level, and just doing moderate mileage and living a quite ordinary social life .

An advantage to train at just sea level is that the runner can run with higher speed all year around.

it's so funny that I had never heard of this guy until I saw Jakob beat him at 5000m this summer. At that point, I read up on him. Now, he is better than Rupp, Ritz, Derrick... Congrats Sondre. I wish that he could have found another 6 seconds so that I could add Hall to that list.

Can't wait to see how this translates to the full marathon.

Renato Canova wrote:

Some specific workouts in February :

Wednesday 1 : 45 km (Moiben Road, 2200m) in 2 h 34'49" (average : 3'26"4)

That works out to a 2:24 marathon, continuing for another 3K at the same pace, at 7000'...presumably much of it on dirt roads (and hilly?). Impressive.

Croze wrote:

Subway Surfers Addiction wrote:

The unanswerable question. One is constantly linked with shenanigans, even at the highest levels. The other isn't even tested regularly OoC.

Sondre is testet regularly. Has been for years.

All the fast half marathons are being done by people not in IAAF Registered Testing Pool. Next time check this out.

Sorry to correct you. The antidoping agency of Norway has Sondre in its whereabout system from long time, and he was tested in Kenya, too. Don't make confusion between the list of athletes in the whereabout system for WADA, that obviously is limited to the best in the World for every event (Sondre will be inserted in this list in the future, after his performance), and the list in whereabout for domestic agencies.

This is the same problem people refused to understand speaking about Kenya : the top Kenyan athletes were all tested several times by WADA and IAAF, but till last year the domestic antidoping agency practically didn't exist.

In all the European Countries, the most part of athletes, not in top 20 in the world, are tested by the National Agencies, and the Antidoping Agency of Norway is one of the most advanced (it's used also for helping other Countries with less experience, such as Kenyan Agency itself).

Does he have any top speed (or short hill sprints that are typical to your athletes) or weight work in his training?

Sprints uphill are one or two times per week. We don't use weight work with Marathon runners. Some session of gym (when there is the possibility) is based on core exercises and exercises for reactivity. I prefer to train elastic fibers than contractil fibers for athletes of endurance.

Good luck with moderate mileage at sea level, Jan !

I known that, he is only being tested by his governing body sporadically. In fact dopers are only scared of the London lab, (2012 & 2017).

i don't think he has got anywhere close to his shorter distance potential pb's

nearest line of fit i coud find ( only to 0.25s for 400/800 0 -> his current line of fit is

~ 55.00 / 1'54.50

->

3'42.34

7'41.55

13'09.98 !

27'16.22 !!

59'39.83

the M potential i'll post now is astonishing !!!

i didn't include it in main list above as he's not training for the M but 1/2M & 10k/5k

however, theoretically, if his 400 - 1/2M ablity extended perfectly to M off his 1/2M/10k training ( which is impossible ), his estimate for a M is

2"03'17 !!!

that figure comes up because his 400/800/1500 speed is so slow that he basically doesn't slow with increasing race distance

i'll be honest : if he transitions properly to the M, the guy can run "03/2"04 !!!???

Renato Canova wrote:

Good luck with moderate mileage at sea level, Jan !

lol...priceless

Thanks Renato

This may be the most interesting thread and insightful post on LR. Coach Canova capture perfectly the situation-can non-East African runners compete and win? Yes, BUT, if they are used to a western lifestyle, do they really have the motivation to do it? Also, the fact that Western runners have surrendered the field mentally to East Africans, believing that East Africans are inherently superior, they build limits in their mind that prevent them from reaching their maximum potential. As I mentioned in another post, rural Kenyans also have many disadvantages growing up-chronic illness/lack of good water sanitation, chronic malnutrition, etc. The only reason Western athletes don't compete to win as they don't want to/have to/think they can. And rationally, why would someone when an entry level job for a college graduate in the West is much better than they could expect from running. Conversely, if a rural East African runner makes a few hundred dollars a year plus room and board, he is much above his lifestyle/income as a near subsistence farmer. It's the same reason why you have many Catholic priests coming from Africa and India to the west-in the west, who would want to be Catholic priest? But in rural Africa going to seminary means food, lodging for life!

Renato, do you have any idea of his current 400 &/or 800 ability ?

even 1500 woud help

the range of 400 is certainly 54 - 56

->

~ 54.00 / 1'52.75

->

3'39.48

7'36.78

13'03.18

27'05.73

59'24.80

2"03'01

or

~ 56.00 / 1'56.00

->

3'44.30

7'43.60

13'11.10

27'12.19

59'17.14

2"02'06 !!!

everything points to a 13-low/27-low guy currently, but the M potential doesn't change & is astonishing !!!

he does not only have theoretical potential of annihilating the non-african M WR, he has chance to run as fast as Eliud !!!???

2:03.17!!! what drugs are you smoking?

You have to think that your calculator can be perfect if an athlete is able to run all his PB in the same period, but the reality is that PBs cover a long period of career, and are achieved in different years.

For example, considering Eliud able to run 3'33" in 1500m is a big mistake, because at the moment he can run 3'42" at his best, and his hypothetical record in Marathon (for example, 2:02) depends on his CURRENT speed (for example, 3'42" - 7'43" - 13'10" - 27' - 58'20").

Short distances can give some indication about the POTENTIALITY of an athlete, in long distances too, supposing he can have a physiological and mental attitude for the next step. But don't forget that is with specific training only that we can create a SPECIALIST in any distance, and when we push in one direction, fatally we lose something in the opposite direction.

There are athletes with a well SPECIFIC range, due to several factors. One of them is the biomechanical action, another the body structure. For example, if we have two athletes able running same times in 5000m and 10000m, but one is 180 cm tall and the other 165, the first is 70 kg heavy the second 52 kg, looking at Marathon the first needs a very higher consumption of fuel for running UNDER his LT, so can't be good as the second in Marathon, where the most important quality is TO REDUCE THE CONSUMPTION OF FUEL AT MARATHON PACE (usually 95% - 96% of HM pace).

About Sondre : he can have a value of about 3'45" in 1500m with training on track. This value can bring him to run 3000m in 7'45", 5000m in 13'10" - 13'15", and 10000m under 27'30". For an athlete with his structure, and organic and mental attitude for long distances, these values can be enough for looking, inside 2020, at a time under 2:06 in full Marathon, which is the European Record. Honestly, at the moment I think this can be the maximum goal for the future.

Renato Canova wrote:

Sprints uphill are one or two times per week. We don't use weight work with Marathon runners. Some session of gym (when there is the possibility) is based on core exercises and exercises for reactivity. I prefer to train elastic fibers than contractil fibers for athletes of endurance.

Many thanks Renato.