Amerikano wrote:
Wait what?? Betsy Sania trains at Bowerman TC with all the white Americans. Did she dope only because she's Kenyan? And Huddle, who dropped a massive PR is clean because of what? She's white? Or something else?
Help me follow your reasoning..
No one wants to believe Huddle is dirty so they deny deny deny so much that. She's as bad the rest of this dirty field.
Everyone knows a white runner could never and absolutely would never dope, they are too good! (End sarcasm)
George Hirsch wrote:
sdfsfgasfd wrote:Who cares what you have against Magness, his observations are right. That race was absurdly doped. No way Huddle should have been so far back running such an incredible time.
Prove it.
Prove it wasn't is where we are now with this sport. Sad.
Kuwabara wrote:
Amerikano wrote:Wait what?? Betsy Sania trains at Bowerman TC with all the white Americans. Did she dope only because she's Kenyan? And Huddle, who dropped a massive PR is clean because of what? She's white? Or something else?
Help me follow your reasoning..
No one wants to believe Huddle is dirty so they deny deny deny so much that. She's as bad the rest of this dirty field.
Everyone knows a white runner could never and absolutely would never dope, they are too good! (End sarcasm)
Those white runners, and Betsy, live in a place where they can be, and are, tested often.
Not so sure about Betsy or how often she is tested but she is easy to get to if they do want to test her.
While testing everywhere needs to step up its game I have not seen or heard of allegations that USADA has been covering up positive tests of any distance athletes. Nor have I seen that the testing program in the US is non-compliant with WADA. So it is fair that the athletes from the US are not as suspicious as athletes from countries that have had YOOGE issues with compliancy.
George Hirsch wrote:
Ben L Wrong wrote:Because he's saying that testing is a joke (covered tests by NF's, IAAF bribery, silly excuses as "I didn't hear the doorbell", etc). Or inexistent for many East Africans -out of competition-.
He is not in a position to know this. He is seriously detracting from the overall effort against cheating by making claims he has zero ability to back up. He dos not work for the IAAF. He coaches no athletes who are at that level. It is hugely damaging to make claims that exceed one's knowledge. The doping problem is huge and it will take time to solve it. Statistically speaking, Magness has likely accused a number of clean athletes of cheating--a responsible coach would NEVER want to be in that position. If he really cared that much he would quit coaching and get involved in the enforcement end, help the folks who are doing the testing to get better at it, or talk about how to overcome Diack-style corruption. Instead he wants to just shoot from the him Donald Trump style and not actually help.
Your remark about Trump is the tip-off that you are a SJW cuck who is too cowardly to confront a POC even if you caught them with their hand in your pocket trying to remove your wallet. It's common knowledge the Africans avoid literally all out of season testing and 'for some reason' are tipped off when a 'surprise test' is in the offing. This isn't even arguable. Go away cuck boy.
George Hirsch wrote:
pop_pop!_v2.2.1 wrote:See you in 7-10 years when yet another doping scandal forces the IAAF/IOC to dust off a few bad apples from 2016.
See you when you finally admit you just cant stand seeing Africans outrun white people.
Don't hold your breath, George. It's like clockwork every major championships. Same thing is happening in the larger society. White people want back their world when a white man was president and white people held all positions of power and won everything, whether or not they deserve it. The response you see here is fueled by the same sentiment which will lead many of these whining posters to vote for Trump in a few months.
What's the cut-off then, guys? 30:12? 30:11? 30:10?
The entire world's talent pool cannot be at the same level. Talent is about outliers. I don't care if that Scandanavian girl justifies herself by doing the right training... you know what, she's not from the right talent pool.
I am fine with Ayana's 29:17. It is inline with her personal best over 5000m. Why is this a surprise, especially at the Olympics with 30 other of the world's best runners in the field? I think some of the women's feelings are hurt because it exposes that they are truly "slow" in the grand scheme of things. It looked like the majority of the field was doing a tempo run while on 8 girls were really getting after it.
It's a 10,000m race, not a Marathon, and that's what Infeld and the majority looked like they were doing. They weren't redlining. They weren't going for it with speed. They were just tempoing a 10K.
TrackBot! VDOT 29:17 10000m
George Hirsch wrote:
sdfsfgasfd wrote:Who cares what you have against Magness, his observations are right. That race was absurdly doped. No way Huddle should have been so far back running such an incredible time.
Prove it.
Glad to see Craig Reedie agreed to join Matthew Centrowitz, Jr. on this thread.
Just so darn hard to find evidence against any of these people - Ayana, Salazar, etc. Especially hard when the sport destroys its whistleblowers and sabotages its own investigations.
Thanks Reedie. Thanks Nike. Thanks IAAF. Useless.
VDOT for 29:17 10.0km: 74.9
Equivalent race times based on VDOT:
Marathon: 02:15:00
Half marathon: 01:04:26
15K: 00:44:50
10K: 00:29:15
5K: 00:14:04
3Mi: 00:13:33
2Mi: 00:08:44
3200m: 00:08:40
3K: 00:08:05
1Mi: 00:04:05
1600m: 00:04:03
1500m: 00:03:47
I am a bot. Info:
By the same logic didn't Magness go from a 4:18 to 4:01 mile in one year during high school.
Maybe he doped?
almostsub4 wrote:
bobgob wrote:Remind us again why Steve Magness is famous? .
I loved him in The Magnificent Seven and Towering Inferno!
The Great Escape / Bullitt / Junior Bonner
Trackbot! Steve Magness v. Sean Wade
First of all, it's not just Magness. I doubt that Ayana even had her spikes off before Greg Lautenslager turned up on Facebook calling it "the most obvious display of drug use ever." Sonia O'Sullivan said you have to ask questions when a 23 year old probably drugged record is destroyed by such a margin. Steve Hoag's first comment on Facebook was about it being a tremendous performance. His second comment was "I hope it's clean."
I think Hoag's comment is probably the best one to make this point. Even someone who is really impressed with it can't simply accept the result at face value. You compared Magness to the Boy Who Cried Wolf. Well, in that fable there was ever only one wolf. Now there are dozens, maybe hundreds of wolves and rather than wait patiently for irrefutable evidence of one, The Boy would serve his compatriots better by crying anytime he thought there might be one because a more drastic sort of intervention is needed.
Some of us asked questions about whether Kenyans were doping or not and had Canova assuring us that they didn't and even if they did he said it did them no good because they were too fit for EPO to help. I was having dinner with Arthur Lydiard, for whom I have unbounded respect, when he told me that he thought the East Germans were clean and we see how that turned out.
Nick Willis said somewhere recently that he thinks the sport is cleaner now than it's ever been since he's been in it, so yes, I agree with you that people have worked to improve it and have had some success. But Willis is one of the people who, like Magness, has made comments about how widespread drug cheating is and has been criticized soundly here for doing it. The people running the sport have no credibility anymore and maybe, maybe, seeing the public reaction to stellar performances is disbelief will shake things up a bit. So I think all of the people questioning this time are doing the sport a service even if they're wrong in this case.
Bix 7, maybe?
laughing wrote:
Anyone know where that 7-mile race is? I think running an "official" 7-mile race would be fun.
Look, everyone should be questioning anyone running at the games period.
After knowing what we know about non-existent testing in Ethiopia and other countries, the corruption at IOC, IAAF, WADA, et. al., lets just say that the "conditions" for the 10k and all the the other races to come are the best doping conditions we've ever had. If you aren't going to dope for the Olympics, then when are you.
Ayana's second 5k was 9 seconds faster than the Olympic record for the 5k and 11 faster than the US record for the 5k. She looked like she could have been easily running under 29m.
We have to stop believing in miracles and start calling bullshit right away. Come on, Lagat is on the US team at 41+. Seriously.
The whole sport and olympic movement needs a reboot and that appears to be impossible so maybe we are better off watching TV because there are lots of great shows on now.
Yup. First white finisher, is also the first clean finisher.
800 Coach 23 wrote:
HRE wrote:Crying wolf seems to be all that's left. When you have every agency that's supposed to control doping in the sport run by people whose concern is preserving the sport's image and taking bribes rather than identifying and removing cheaters the only recourse I can see is to make so much noise about the issue that the people concerned more with preserving the sport's image see that they've failed to do so and that the only way to restore the image is to go ahead and actually identify and remove PED users.
I don't know how much time you've spent on this board, but for years we've had people here asking, maybe even demanding, that people in the sport who know what's going on say something. Now that's begun happening and the counterpoint is "Prove it," or "S/he is just an attention whore."
Where Magness is clearly right is that there is NO trust. If there was we wouldn't have these sorts of discussions. Yes, it's unfair if this was a legitimate performance but that's not Magness' fault and he's making a legitimate point that many others who know the sport well are making..
Did you not notice the other 3 runners under 30?
Oddly, I did. Do you have a point or did you just wonder?
Ben L Wrong wrote:
@stevemagness
I'm sorry, I'll say it. This is laughable. Laughable... take that for what it is.
@stevemagness
Splits for Ayana--- 14:46 and 14:31.... laughable.
@stevemagness
The saddest part is that trust is gone. We can't trust Bob Beamon-esque performances anymore thanks to where we've allowed doping to get.
Steve Magness needs to get a life. He literally leeches off other people's success. Picks the highest achievers and tries to bring them down. Pathetic.
Ben L Wrong wrote:
@stevemagness
I'm sorry, I'll say it. This is laughable. Laughable... take that for what it is.
@stevemagness
Splits for Ayana--- 14:46 and 14:31.... laughable.
@stevemagness
The saddest part is that trust is gone. We can't trust Bob Beamon-esque performances anymore thanks to where we've allowed doping to get.
*&(*#&$(*@#& LOVE IT!
never been a big Magness fan, however PROPS to him and it's good to see someone speaking out!
T&F is in a dark dark place right now, unless we push back and call BS it will get worse.
Speaking out against what? He wants slower races or something?
That was one of the best races I have ever seen in following track for the past 15 years. This is opposite of dark times, this is exciting and I can't wait to see what is next.