Hebron, KY group outed in AP article!

I'm not trolling. This is an important topic to me. First I think the big races are just as bad as the little ones at testing. The big races offer more prize money, get the more elite runners, and those runners tend to be tested elsewhere because they are elite. The second tier runners aren't cherry-picking races who don't test, they pick races with less prize money where the big guys aren't running and those are the races that they finish in the money. They have to run a lot of the smaller races to earn a living. My name of MOST PEOPLE CHEAT is sarcastic. Runners are labeled cheaters by those who really don't know what they are posting about. I'm sincere when I question the motives and ask "why do you care?" It isn't nearly as sinister as this forum thinks. And when groups of runners or agents are labeled cheaters, it isn't fair to those who are clean. I take the position that runners are innocent until proven guilty. If the race directors care, if you care, then press for more testing. Clean runners and agents would welcome that. You do a big disservice by assuming groups are conspiring to cheat and you ban them without due process.

Just send her back to damn Russia ready.

Woodpilecincy wrote:

Just send her back to damn Russia ...

That is a very bigoted statement. Want to try again? Tell us how you feel without the bigotry? And by the way, what state do you live in?

Truth Hurts. A lot of us have been hurt by this group and we are finally seeing justice. Any athlete that is running for her, under her management should be Banned for ANY race that offers prize money.

The rest of the country needs to sign on with this:

http://www.runnersweb.com/running/news_2016/rw_news_20160407_Midwest_Races.html

Just Eat It wrote:

The rest of the country needs to sign on with this:

http://www.runnersweb.com/running/news_2016/rw_news_20160407_Midwest_Races.html

Three of their points are very good. #1, #5, and #6. The other 3 points go too far and wouldn't stand up in court. You have to draw a line between personal opinion and what is legal. They shouldn't outreach their authority. Get a lawyer involved or get in touch with USATF or USADA.

1. Not be currently serving a suspension for use of a banned substance

2. Not have ever served a ban for use of performance enhancing drugs

3. Not be represented by coaches and/or agents who have had 2 or more such suspensions by their athletes in the previous 4 years

4. Not be represented by coaches and/or agents who ever served a ban for use of performance enhancing drugs during their own athletic career

5. Provide proper documentation proving they are eligible for prize money (form W-9, W-8ECI or W-8BEN)

6. Consent to random drug testing according to the standards and procedures of USATF, USADA and WADA

The text says, " ... has built a tradition of providing fast races and producing Olympic Trials qualifying times ..."

In going too far with the Indiana & Ohio rules, there are runners who can run in the Diamond League races, the Olympic Trials, and the Olympics ... but they can't run in the Ohio 10k.

Good to see races taking a stand. Ban they all together! Good start, and I am sure many many more too come.

Are Kenisi and Too part of the Hebron, KY group? There is some evidence on the internet that links them to LM.

"Sunday at the Rock ‘n’ Roll Raleigh Half Marathon presented by WRAL [...]world-class Kenyans like Geoffrey Kenisi who’s 1:00:28 half-marathon PR is nearly three minutes faster than Mack’s 1:03:10. Another Kenyan, Josphat Kiptanui Too is expected to be in the mix as well with his impressive 1:02:00 PR.

Read more at

http://running.competitor.com/2016/04/rock-n-roll-marathon-series/bobby-mack-retires-from-elite-racing-at-the-rock-n-roll-raleigh-half-marathon_147994#eHO2fPT2tYOkBvJP.99

"

hebron watch wrote:

Are Kenisi and Too part of the Hebron, KY group? There is some evidence on the internet that links them to LM.

Good example to test the Indianapolis/Ohio rules. I don't see either of them on the banned list. Assuming they have the paperwork to prove they can be paid in the US and they agree to any drug testing, then they should be allowed to compete. Trying to figure out if they are connected to LM is difficult and as I've been arguing, not relevant to whether they are eligible for prize money.

By the way, former athlete and recent coach Jon Drummond is on the banned list as a coach. 8-year ban for "Possession, trafficking and administration of prohibited substances". Larisa Mikhaylova is not on the banned list for any reason. You are free to express your own personal opinion about her, but you can't ban an athlete for being associated with her. She hasn't formally be found guilty of anything.

Just ban her, and anyone affliated with the group.

Lugodude wrote:

Just ban her, and anyone affliated with the group.

That sounds very personal.

I've ran into her a few times, and the way she comes off is dirty, this media stuff is not a surprise to me. I could of stated this 5 years ago!

TCRfans wrote:

I've ran into her a few times, and the way she comes off is dirty, this media stuff is not a surprise to me. I could of stated this 5 years ago!

Although many on this forum think that Larisa Mikhaylova is "dirty", she has never been banned for anything. I don't know of any additional list that US road runs can use to determine who is "dirty". You can't take action based on public opinion, a newspaper article, or personal feelings. Some of those on the current banned list include:

- Maurie Plant, Australia, manager, "substituted one athlete's urine for another prior to a test"

- Jon Drummond, USA, coach, "Possession, trafficking and administration of prohibited substances", 8 year ban

- Lee Evans, USA, coach, PED case involving a minor, 4 year ban

- Trevor Graham, USA, coach, "Possession, trafficking, and administration of performance-enhancing drugs, and assisting, encouraging, aiding and abetting anti-doping rule violations", life ban

- Ray Stewart, Jamaica, coach, "Trafficking and administering of prohibited substances", life ban

- BBC news report, "Gatlin's coach could face sanctions"

So unless there is some other list being maintained by an authorized party, Larisa is clear as well as her athletes who have not been found guilty of any wrong-doing.

Mariita DQd from her win at 2015 Go St. Louis Half.

Larisa Mikhaylova tried to enter more athletes in this year's race; denied.

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/other/go-st-louis-marathon-tries-to-weed-out-cheaters/article_21ad5c27-8201-515b-82f9-97754e88807c.html

What do you have to SAY about that "Enforce the Rules"

You just go back to dreaming you could be an elite athlete and let the true people who care about the sport do there business.

TCRfans wrote:

What do you have to SAY about that "Enforce the Rules". You just go back to dreaming you could be an elite athlete and let the true people who care about the sport do there business.

You aren't going to find many people who care about the sport more than I do. I don't know if you consider this elite; I was a two-time all-American at a Division 1 college, ran in the Olympic Trials, and competed in world class competition during my day. When I was in my prime I could probably easily beat you in your prime. But who could run faster isn't what this is about.

Regarding what I have to say is what I've been saying all along. DQing Mariita during her banned period (7/5/2015 - 8/13/23) is the right thing to do. Black-listing Larisa is asking for a lawsuit. I hope there is a lawyer out there who will help her fight this.

I'm using the name "Enforce the rules" for a reason. I'm not saying to "Make up your own rules" or "Go beyond the rules". Small time road races are moving from non-enforcement of rules to going too far. Figure it out. Don't make it more difficult than it is.

Enforce the Rules. You say small-time road races, but the World Marathon Majors have also enacted rules that go far beyond the scope of what WADA/IAAF have laid out - lifetime bans from WMM events, retroactive clawbacks for prize money if an individual tests positive later, etc. Do you not think they had counsel evaluate these before they did it?

With regard to Larissa. Mariita has stated that it was Larissa who gave her the drugs, and Larissa continued to enter Mariita in races even after being notified of the ban (because "Mariita told her it wasn't true") Mariita is also far from the first of Larissa's athletes to test positive, so at this point races are just protecting themselves and clean athletes.

These athletes haven't been banned - they've been banned as long as they continue to work with Larissa. They could move to another manager, but none have chosen to do that because they know they aren't welcomed there.

What's more curious to me is that USADA/USATF are moving so slowly to hand down at least a provisional ban to Larissa given the fact that rules for banning support personnel were really strengthened in the past year.

ButchTrucks,

Personally, I don't think several of the rules, especially the one against Larissa, would hold up in court. That is why I'd love for a lawyer to test it. If World Marathon Majors are going beyond WADA / IAAF then I'd question how they are getting away with that. And if it is legal then is WADA / IAAF considering adoption of these rules?

Checking if an athlete, agent, or coach is banned is easy. Click on the following link and type in Mariita, Mikhaylova, or any other name.

http://www.dopingsanctions.com/search-by-name

Maybe Maritta's name wasn't in there on last year's April race day but should have been in the database by many of the other races that she ran. Race Directors aren't doing their jobs in checking if they just rely on the athlete to be honest.

Maybe it will prove out that Mikhaylova will be banned. You feel that USADA / USATF are moving too slowly. That's a different issue. Voice your concerns to the appropriate organization. But races shouldn't rely on word-of-mouth for the facts to determine eligibility for prize money.