I'll take a color copy.....Thanks George!
I'll take a color copy.....Thanks George!
malmo wrote:
For your edification:
2 Mile....1.......10.......15........20........25........30.......40.......50...............60.......70.......80.......90.......100.
1978 8:44.0..9:02.4..9:04.9..9:06.5..9:07.6..9:08.8..9:08.7..9:09.8.......9:12.2..9:13.3.
Please explain: The 30th best time is 9:08.8 (guy I coached) and 40th is 9:08.7.
A month after running the 9:08.8 he was the USTFF Nationl Jr. marathon champion.
at least its on the rise again in the 2000's
Malmo,
If you still have a color copy, I'd appreciate you sending it my way, por favor.
Muchos gracias.
Drunk N. Hyena
malmo wrote:
... 1998 is the first year were there was widespread internet usage, allowing runners a forum for the exchange of ideas and support. Grote and Schiefer's Track and Field Media, the first website for hardcore runners was extremely popular during those years (1996-1999).
This is what I was looking for awhile back. There is no question whatsoever that the exchange of ideas via the internet running forums is the catalyst which is solely responsible for the upsurge in performances since the tail end of the 1990s. I stated that 1997 was when the level of pertinent information made a significant jump and that this was reflected within only 2-3 years by a sudden improvement in performances.
Your decade-by-decade summary illustrates the nadir of the 1990s much more effectively:
Sub 4:10, sub 9:00 by decade
----4:10---9:00
60s 44 14
70s 105 102
80s 68 49
90s 38 17
00s 56 58
If the trends continue, the '00s will exceed the '70s in terms of sub 4:10s and sub 9:00s. The running camraderie of the 1970s has returned in electronic form in the 2000s. Back then, there were serious clubs with serious runners. Now the spirit has rekindled through forums and some in-the-flesh groups have popped up to rival the live training atmosphere present during the 1970s. Runners have the opportunity once again to learn how to do this stuff.
The 50th best mile in 1977 was 4:13.0, which would have ranking in the top 15 for 10 out of 11 years during the period of 1989-1999.
The 50th best 2 mile in 1975 was 9:08.2, which also would have ranked in the top 15 for 10 out of 11 years from 1989 to 1999. Furthermore, 9:08.2 would have ranked in the top 10 for 7 out of the 11 years from 1989 to 1999.
The 50th best mile in 1977 was 4:13.0, which would have ranked in the top 15 for 10 out of the 11 years during the period of 1989-1999.
The 50th best 2 mile in 1975 was 9:08.2, which also would have ranked in the top 15 for 10 out of 11 years from 1989 to 1999. Furthermore, 9:08.2 would have ranked in the top 10 for 7 out of the 11 years from 1989 to 1999.
Malmo, could you please send the color copy to me as well, if you still have it. Thanks, Adam.
I would like a color copy please.
The reason attributed to the internet, (and offered early on by malmo) is the easy availability of research, knowledge, and shared experience to young runners.
For my dollar, I have to think that the summer of '96, with the US hosting the Olympics, Johnson setting his records, and Bob Kennedy even having a bit part- had to have helped inspire thousands of kids who are now coming into their own.
If Johnson and Kennedy inspired kids then they weren't very inspirational were they? 1996 was the absolute nadir of high school distance running. There was nowhere else to go but up. 97, 98, and 99 were better, but not by much. It wasn't until 2000 that American preps started performing again.
I find it hard to say that the internet was the only reason that we are seeing better times, but it is equally hard to say that it had no influence at all. It certainly helped promote a larger sense of community, places like Dyestat (childish though they can be)certainly are a resource for younger runners... I wish I had known about them when I was younger. I ended up learning most stuff on my own, but it took me years to get even a basic understanding of how to train. It certainly can't hurt.
Malmo,
If you are still emailing people the color copies of your charts I would greatly appreciate you sending me them. Thanks!!!
You can find a version here:
For what it's worth, number of sub-4:10 and sub-9:00 HS performers per 100,000 participants.
Blue = 4:10
Red = 9:00
Great information! And what a beautiful color-coded chart. (I especially like the use of burgundy and teal.) Seriously, though, the highlighting shows how 1974-1977 was the early summit of high school distance running. The long decline began in 1978, but 2000, 2003, and 2004 were comparable to 1974-1977.
That's better.
4:10 miles (blue) 9:00 2-miles (red)
Combined average of 4:10/9:00
So I graduated at pretty much the nadir of high school distance running in 1996. Puts my 9:32 into greater perspective. That was all-state and top 7 in Indiana that year, today it wouldn't even sniff the meet.
Alan
Are indoor marks included?
On Hodges chart, I notice Thom Hunt's 4;02.7 indoor mile from 1976, but Lindgren's 1964 8;40 and Merrick's 1971 8;43 are not.