I'll go through some of my old photos. I used to coach in so. Cal (now I'm in so. Oregon). I took some athletes to the Kinney meet at Fresno the year that Gaziano and Garrison battled. I think it was Ken's senior year. My runner and Ken were pretty close together during the race so i have some pix of them. I think I recall Ken wearing some outrageously bright singlet (I think Billy's Pink Panther T.C. motif was still in the works).
pre841 wrote:
I'll go through some of my old photos. I used to coach in so. Cal (now I'm in so. Oregon). I took some athletes to the Kinney meet at Fresno the year that Gaziano and Garrison battled. I think it was Ken's senior year. My runner and Ken were pretty close together during the race so i have some pix of them.
Where did you coach in CA and where now in OR?
What are things like in So. Oregon anyway? How is coaching there?
Playa Del Rey at my alma mater (St. Bernard). I love So. Oregon though. I've been there 19 years. We're heading out the door this morning for the Stanford Invite.
I remember you as a young student at the University. You trained around Eugene with some excellent older runners who were always preparing for the next marathon (remember Paav?, Dave, Dave2, etc?). You have been an incredible example for so many young runners from that Medford area, keep up the good work, and all the best to your family.
Wow, I'm impressed someone knows me. I still cherish those days running with the 5 o'clock group. My running days are long behind me, but I do enjoy the coaching end of the running spectrum.
Steve and other Oregon contributers: thank you for your posts! This has been one of best threads I've ever seen here. Steve, I apologize if I appeared to be bagging on Bill as I was merely writing about what people might say and I absolutely agree that to write about who is the top among peers would be an exercise in futility and would demean many a great athlete.
I have enjoyed watching the great runners of Oregon and look forward to a renaissance under Coach Lananna.
Thanks again for sharing your memories. The world is a better place from having people such as your family in it!
This is a great thread as I'm a big Bill McChesney fan, heck I'm a fan of their whole family, which has done so much for distance running, especially in Oregon.
I think Les's critique is off and I think he wanted to tie it into his writing of the good, bad, and ugly. I thought it was a reach. Just last week at a football game, an entire defensive unit was trying to get the fans to stand up in the middle of the game.
I also like the passion Billy had after losing that race. Hey, I'm glad he had high standards. That's good stuff.
I enjoy this thread ... as always on letsrun.com's message board, there is too much negativity, but I think the good has outweighed the bad here.
* Next time I'm in Eugene I'm going to go to the library and copy a photo of a great Register-Guard photo of Dirk Lakeman and Billy hitting the tape in a mile. But what was it, district meet? State? I may need a date on this. It's a great photo and I believe Lakeman is at 4:04 and change, and Billy at 4:05 ... right?
This thread ROCKS! I know that letsrun.com gets a lot of flack for all of the smack talking on here, but it is threads like these that make it the greatest running site/publication (including print pubs) in the world.Hoovis
Ore/Ma. wrote:
Reply to flashmile. Steven McChesney here to defend his brother as well as other Oregon greats. There could be a claim that Matt Centrowitz was the greatest Oregon runner of all time. 6 x USATF champ. 2 x Olympic team (1 - 1500, 1 - 5,000) 13:12 (I believe the American Record at the time) are not too shabby.
My point is that they ran at different time. Comparing them is not really fair because of circumstances. Bill ran faster than Pre in the NCAAs and placed 3rd to Kenyans. Pre dominated before the Kenyans really came to the US in any numbers. There were a few, but not of the same quality as a few years later. When Salazar, Centrowitz and Bill ran they faced the best in the World. In the Pac 8 (wasn't Pac 10 yet) WSU had the #1 and #2 10k runners in the world. Judging by Pre's international racing record he would have faired no better than his later counterparts against Henery Rono or the increbible depth of Kenyans running for WSU or UTEP. That was not true when Pre raced in college. Bill ran against world record holders in his own conference. He had to race better runners more often.
Matt, Bill and Pre at their best had very similar international success. Pre was 4th in the Olympics. Bill made the team that boycotted in Russia but went on to rank 4th in the world in the 5K (10th in the 10K) and beat the gold and silver medalists in Europe that summer. Matt ran well in Europe over many seasons as well.
Not being able to run in the Olympics had a very negative effect on Bill just as the 4th in the Olympics had an effect on Pre. Bill was making a very good comeback when Tom died.
So in my mind there is no single best runner at Oregon. Just a long list of legends including Moore, Manely, Grelle, Dellinger, Chapa, Salazar, Pre, Centrowitz, Billy and many more.
I bet if you could have asked Pre or Bill who was the greatest they would have both refused to answer that question and instead would have talked with great respect of the other. I know that is true of Billy.
Flashmile,
I have just gone back over this entire thread and I see absolutely nothing that you need to apoligize for. You stated a fact and then said some very nice things about Bill. You should be thanked and I am doing that now. Thanks.
I too am looking forward to seeing what the Ducks can do under Lananna. I don't know him, but people around here (New England) speak highly of him. Remember that he did great things for Dartmouth before going to Stanford.
I am also happy to see that Oregon State is starting a Women's program again. I hope that they bring back the men's some day. People should not forget that Oregon State added to the tradition of the state. Not only was the flop high jump style invented there. Bernie Wagner gave the Ducks all they could handle some years in dual meets. I ran in the last Oregon vs Oregon State dual meet. I was very sad to see their track turned into parking for other sports a few years later.
Thanks for remembering the Oregon State Beavs, I graduated from there in '85. Hopefully the men's program will return one day, but it won't be soon.
I don't think you ran in the last UO-OSU dual, since I recall attending one in 1985. OSU shut down their track programs in 1988. Karl Van Calcar was the last Beav to compete in men's track, winning the 1988 NCAA steeple title. A bittersweet end.
Reed you are correct. In fact Oregon State may have hosted the Pac 8 or 10 after I ran. Thanks for the correction.
Anyway, the Beavers had a number of fine athletes and some deep teams. The Beavers have kept pace in the Pac 8 & 10 in other sports and it is a shame that they did not support cross country and track and field. (The Beavers were exceptional in basketball under Miller for instance). Your's was a nice facility and hosted a wonderful high school invitational. It is too bad that they turned it into a parking lot. What are the women's cross country and track teams using for a facility right now?
Just a thought: 1) Eugene has received the bid for the 2008 Olympic Trials; 2) OTC is getting back behind renovation of Pre's Trails; 3)What about getting behind a movement that would rename the Amazon Trail for Billy and Tom?
OSU now uses a cinder track just across from the Basketball arena. BUT, they are going to build a very nice stadium just west of the current cinder track with brick walls sort of like Penn State's. Should be quite nice! The women's program is really growing fast and strong under Coach Kelly Sullivan. They have some nice recruits since they re-started the program two years ago. I expect them to be in the front half of the PAC 10 in a year.
Wanted to resurrect this thread as well. I'm getting excited about heading up to Eugene this weekend for the Pepsi team meet.
Much has been said about the altercation Jeff Nelson had with Salazar.
Bill had an altercation as well.
The team was running 6 x mile. Salazar led the way accompanied by Chapa at 4:21-22 range.
On the fifth mile, Bill took over taking the lead the last 150 yards. There were some words.
Bill wasn't able to keep up during his freshman year but he didn't give up.
On the last interval, Al took it out as usual. At the half mile, Bill surged into the lead and taking Rudy with him. They broke away from Salazar(which is a major feat in the long intervals). Bill and Rudy finished together at 4:14 and Al came through at 4:19.
No words, Bill was ferocious and always up for the challenge.
I grew up in Seattle, and we would occasionally here stories and rumors coming up from "down south". Right around the time of Prefontaine's passing, we heard of a a " 'Pre'-Incarnation" from South Eugene. I was like yeah, whatever. Then an article appeared in RW, I think, had a pic of a fierce little dude in an "AXEMEN" singlet. You could tell he was the Real Deal.
Kind of spooky how both he and Pre died young in car accidents. RIP.
The article was about how he(Bill) had been injured part of the season and going for his 3rd straight Cross country title and winning. Very inspirational stuff.
Boy's life magazine in the late 70's had a wonderful article with pictures of the late and great Bill McChesney in fact Bill was on the cover.
It sure would be nice to see something like that.
This is a great thread. I was a walk-on at Oregon in '81. I remember the workouts back then always had a kind of a doom and gloom atmosphere, probably because everyone knew what was about to happen (a major ass woopin). But Bill was always up beat and was the only "stud" there that would talk to me and ask how things were going. Just a super nice guy. I don't think you will ever find anyone that doesn't have only great things to say about him.
BTW, make sure you add Jim Hill to any list of Oregon greats.