G. Dibaba - 14:18.86 - Smashed Defar's World Record by over 5 seconds!

Clerk wrote:

Ignoring these circumstances make it seem like anti doping works. It doesnt. There are holes in the system, which are exploited. And ignoring what is right under our face, without a little bit of skepticism, only supports the facade.

First off, wonderful post-thank you for it. I guess I would have to wonder how many people on these boards know (or, as you say, care to know) about these procedures.

Here is my defense of what is happening with some of the people supporting clean Baby D. Skepticism aside, they do not want to jump to the dark side. They have seen and heard others (and themselves) arguing vehemently against their athlete using drugs, and "innocent until proven guilty" is a firm belief in their minds. Is that blind faith? In many ways yes. Is it wrong? I wish we could just know.

I think your perspective is unique and useful because it supplies more than blind skepticism, which is the other side of the polls. You have factual experience-based skepticism. I wonder then, what is the scenario like in the US? Do the Brojos or other elites/semi-elites around these boards know what American athletes (who are accessible more frequently and would then take bigger risks to be doping) do in the same regards to get away with using PEDs?

This is where the disconnect comes from. No one wants to offer the advice or knowledge that you just did, they just want to scream until they are red faced and we are all further polarized.

Every single world record--by definition--is some sort of breakthrough that cannot be explained by prior performances.

There are so many performances that we are 100% certain are clean (mostly because of the era in which they took place) who we would now say are as dirty as can be: Peter Snell's 1:44.3, Jim Ryun's 3:51.3, Ron Clarke's 13:16.

This is what is so sad about the sport now. The greater the performance the less we trust it.

I believe that Dibaba is clean but I cannot know that it is true.

Also, people keep posting that it is easier to cheat in East Africa. Maybe. But it doesn't mean people do it. (And one more also--it is funny that many of the same people who post about all of the genetic advantages East Africans have also argue that they are more doped--which is it?)

Fantastic posts, clerk. Thank you!

There is random year around testing, idiot. Every athlete can be tested at any time at all, no matter where they are on Earth. Taking that gamble is foolhardy. Eventually you will get caught.

Fact: Less than 1% of eligible athletes are doping and get caught.

14:37.33 wrote:

Every single world record--by definition--is some sort of breakthrough that cannot be explained by prior performances.

There are so many performances that we are 100% certain are clean (mostly because of the era in which they took place) who we would now say are as dirty as can be: Peter Snell's 1:44.3, Jim Ryun's 3:51.3, Ron Clarke's 13:16.

This is what is so sad about the sport now. The greater the performance the less we trust it.

I believe that Dibaba is clean but I cannot know that it is true.

Also, people keep posting that it is easier to cheat in East Africa. Maybe. But it doesn't mean people do it. (And one more also--it is funny that many of the same people who post about all of the genetic advantages East Africans have also argue that they are more doped--which is it?)

I agree with the sentiment "that is what is sad about the sport now". I would argue that it is literally impossible for a track and field record to be set now without it arousing suspicion. But I don't think this indicates any excessive negativity on the part of the skeptics. To me at least, it seems like common sense. Basically, we know that there was an EPO era and that EPO use was widespread, even if we don't know exactly who used (other than those who were busted). We have good evidence, both anecdotally and from studies, that EPO is a highly effective drug for endurance athletes. We also know that EPO was by no means the only PED in use. Countless people close to the action have said things like, everybody dopes, and it's easy to evade being busted. So, in short, we can be reasonably confident that records that were achieved in the '90s/early '00s included a lot of marks set by athletes on EPO and other PEDs. When somebody sets a new record today, to believe they were clean, we have to believe that they are better clean than the doped-up runners of a few years ago. If nothing else, you can't blame the skeptics for being skeptical.

For an illustration, think of how you would feel if somebody broke FloJo's 100/200m records. Wouldn't you be suspicious?

Also, regarding the idea that "Africans could dope but that doesn't mean they would", I think the obvious retort is, sure, some will hold a high moral ground, but in a large group, you are going to have a predictable (and probably significant) amount who will cheat. It's human nature. Look at just about any field - if people can find a way to cheat, they will.

Your reasonableness has no place on this mesage board. All clean or all dirty. Pick a side.

1.

serena williams is clearly a rotten doper

career was largely finishing till

teamed up with french coach who

introduced her to world of igf-1 lr3

vomitting definite sign of overdoing tis.

2.

snell believeable and from new zealand

but believe Ryun and Clarke to be dopers

certain aerobic increasing steroids well

established by then .when

webb broke his record , had cera .

3.

regardless of dibaba's aerobic efficiency

whether natural or slightly topped up.

not going to get away with sky high hct

nor think is other endurance ped.

EXACTLY same as last year record all

about speed and form .

looking at sprints ,lagat etc so obvious tat

IGF -1 lr3 is key .

generaly female distance runners will

lack in theses areas because female

and all energy been conserved for aerobic

effort ,so definite time to be gained .

wont translate aswell to larger track

but 5k is possible as chinese never attackd

World Record wrote:

Congratulations to Genzebe Dibaba. Shame on jealous, possibly racist, ill-informed anonymous posters claiming that she hasn't gained her world record from hard training but from illegal drugs. She has been tested and never failed one, and has also spoken out against drug cheaters, as has her famous sister.

Genzebe Dibaba's world records are phenomenal and clean, achieved through countless monumental training sessions over many years.

It's a simpleton's excuse to write off extraordinary world record achievements such as Genzebe Dibaba's to being "doped to the gills."

Professional runners and long-time fans know better, and stand united in congratulating and supporting Genzebe Dibaba on this monumental indoor 5,000 meter world record.

This what I say ALL TIME when subject of Qu Yunxia 3:50.46 1500, 8:06.11 3000--Wang Junxia, 29:31.78 10,000--Wang Junxia, etc. come up.

All need happen is hard training, hard racing, turtle blood, turtle soup.

In Reply,

to wish a drug could give me good form.

point is being able to have enough

STRENGTH and energy reserve for distanc

runner ( regardless of how pretty form is)

to be able to hold as good from start to

15 minutes later.

or marathon lilke previous record.

we all know feeling when on the aerobic

edge for so long eventually start to lose form , so either backoff and go slower but largely keep form

or keep pushing but cut stride .

either way covering less ground and slower

having strength to hold form largely

nervous system mediated and women

as can see suffer alot more.

if peak cycle IGF - 1 lr3 then nervous sys.

souped up like for sprinters and

especially older athletes where suffer most

when age.

so easily hold form on edge and

alot of time to be had in womens event

if cant dope other ways

and if aerobic capacity is elite already

naturally then, eh dibaba.

Perhaps you should try to write that in English.

As a kiwi, I am pleased you give Snell and New Zealanders a pass. So, you think Ryan (American) and Clarke (Australian) were on steroids and stimulants-presumably the two main things available then.

Perhaps he should try writing it in human!

Very insightful post. Impossible for my brain to do the processing.