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Hodgie: Where was the Lydiard event in Boston??
Was the place jammed to the rafters?
Do you know who is the fastest runner using Van Anken method?.
He is also German like Van Anken. That is a 12.54 5000m runner he is Olympic champion Dieter Bauman.
1) Easy runs 1hour++ for bodyweight and general conditioning
2) Tempo runs for aerobic/endurance devolopment
like 8-15k fast run Tempo or interval
3)Competision speed/Speed endurance
I've seen logs for many years of Dieter and i must say:I train much harder than he did and I'm not a training maniac.
During his prime 88-96 he did very low mileage(70-90), later in his career he increased it a bit(80-110).
Pace of normal distance runs:7-8min/mile(7:00 would have been very fast for him), recovery runs:8-9min/mile), "tempos":5:40/mile.
He did about 2 quality workouts per week, he would start with mainly 10k-pace/treshold fartleks, very easy stuff and faster stuff as the season progresses(but very low percentage in the overallvolume of training) as 4x1k or 20x400m, he rarely did long-runs before starting training for the marathon, 90mins was enough for him.
For the toothpaste story:Baumann is way too intelligent to take nandrolone what is easy to detect, maybe he was cheating but surely not with nandrolone and he was world-class for 15years!!! thats not possible if your performance depends on drugs.
2nd in 88, 1st in 92, 4th in 96(just shy of a medal against the kenyans) and still 13:07 as a 37-year old.
He ran at world-class every year, 3:33 as a 22-year old and 8 years later still 3:34, he even ran 7:40-3ks in training while being banned, would you dope in your first race after a suspension when the whole world is watching?
He ran his first race 3k indoor in 7:40s barely outkicked by Olympic Champ Wolde.
his progression:born 1965:
1982
4:03,75
8:36,66
15:42,96
1983
3:49,36
8:16,31
14:40,4
1984
3:50,37
8:05,93
14:21,54
1985
3:42,52
7:51,52
13:48,00
1986
3:36,40
7:52,24
13:35,04
1987
3:33,54
7:40,26
13:30,89
1988
3:34,82
7:50,30
13:15,52
1989
3:34,25
7:38,94
13:18,36
29:03,33
1990
3:40,38
1991
3:34,93
7:33,91
13:24,58
1992
3:33,91
7:38,10
13:09,03
1994
3:38,49
7:34,69
13:12,46
28:20,66
1995
3:34,49
7:33,56
13:01,72
1996
3:36,77
7:44,66
13:08,81
1997
3:33,51
7:31,81
12:54,70
27:21,53
1998
3:42,00
7:30,50
13:04,10
27:32,31
1999
3:40,
7:37,
13:02,63
2000
3:37,18
13:13,83
2002
7:40:68
13:07,40
27:38,51
>Hodgie: Where was the Lydiard event in Boston??
Was the place jammed to the rafters?<
Regis College, last Wed. night. The lecture room was packed. Coach Squires had to sit on the floor.
Tom Derederian of the Greater Boston Track Club, host organizers of the event, called the gathering a "Who's Who" of New England runners.
Can you post more info about Bauman's training or links where it might be accessable. Looks like great material.
google for:
Trainingsmatrix Dieter Baumann
this will get you to his diary from 2000/2001.
As far as I can see those pages are no longer linked directly from his homepage
but they are still accessible via google.
Ne-now wrote:
I've seen logs for many years of Dieter and i must say:I train much harder than he did and I'm not a training maniac.
During his prime 88-96 he did very low mileage(70-90), later in his career he increased it a bit(80-110).
Pace of normal distance runs:7-8min/mile(7:00 would have been very fast for him), recovery runs:8-9min/mile), "tempos":5:40/mile.
He did about 2 quality workouts per week, he would start with mainly 10k-pace/treshold fartleks, very easy stuff and faster stuff as the season progresses(but very low percentage in the overallvolume of training) as 4x1k or 20x400m, he rarely did long-runs before starting training for the marathon, 90mins was enough for him.
For the toothpaste story:Baumann is way too intelligent to take nandrolone what is easy to detect, maybe he was cheating but surely not with nandrolone and he was world-class for 15years!!! thats not possible if your performance depends on drugs.
2nd in 88, 1st in 92, 4th in 96(just shy of a medal against the kenyans) and still 13:07 as a 37-year old.
He ran at world-class every year, 3:33 as a 22-year old and 8 years later still 3:34, he even ran 7:40-3ks in training while being banned, would you dope in your first race after a suspension when the whole world is watching?
He ran his first race 3k indoor in 7:40s barely outkicked by Olympic Champ Wolde.
Thanks for the post. I agree that we should train in a way that helps us to reduce body fat, and then eat more and train hard or race hard when we have reached our target weight.
When we train very hard, we cannot reduce body fat without affecting our immune system.
Some of the secret behind Bauman is 400m PB.
He did 49sek at age 21 same as Haile who did also 49sek in relay. That is strength vs bodyweight.
Than you add endurance and specific endurance.
If yuo can do 400m PB+ 10sek is good 3k endurance 49+10 is 59 if that is almost Haile Bauman is 11sek 49 vs 60
Offcorse maybe Dieter was not in 49 shape whwen 7.30 so maybe he was better endurance than Haile
Bjorn wrote:
Offcorse maybe Dieter was not in 49 shape whwen 7.30 so maybe he was better endurance than Haile
"BETTER endurance than Haile" ?? Um, I doubt it.
12:39 is still in ANOTHER league than a tainted 12:54. And 26:22 ?? Fuhgeddaboutit. 2:06 on his first(real first) try??? World 1/2 marathon champ.
Don't try and put Dieter (or anyone else other than Bekele, Tergat, or El G) in the class of Geb, because it just ain't true.
Dieter was great, and we will never know about his drug use, but the fact is he got busted taking a very commonly used steroid. Maybe it was in supplements he had been taking, without him knowing it was in there. If so, it was still HELPING him, right?
Haile has never won an Olympic 5000m medal of any sort. Dieter has 2.
So there is a small argument that one could put Dieter into the same league as Haile.
It is pointless to talk about who is and is not using drugs at the very top level as the drug testing system is completely inadequate.
Is it true that Van Aaken advocated taking walk breaks during runs. This is something I heard or read somewhere. Was this suggested of the elite runners that he coached or just for those who ran for fittness and health?
It's in his writings, and he did have interval sessions where there was walking for recoveries. But I asked Joan Ullyot about this once, she often travelled with him in the US and translated for him and she told me that he advised running slowly on distance runs but never mentioned walking breaks.
Dustin Hoffman wrote:
Haile has never won an Olympic 5000m medal of any sort. Dieter has 2.
So there is a small argument that one could put Dieter into the same league as Haile.
Yes, a very small argument. Miniscule might be more like it......or better yet, how about non-existent?
How many 5000 M Olympic races did Haile enter??? Exactly, none(he was too busy winnng the Olympic 10,000 twice, not to mention the WC 10,000 several times. I know, I know, poor excuse). So what was your point?
Seb Coe and Michael Johnson never won any 5000 m medals either, so I guess that puts Dieter in the same league as those two as far as all-time performers at Olympic games??
Dustin Hoffman wrote:
It is pointless to talk about who is and is not using drugs at the very top level as the drug testing system is completely inadequate.
I would not say it is pointless. I agree the system is flawed, but I don't give Dieter the benefit of the doubt more than anyone else. But that is not the main point. The main point is:
Dieter was not close to being in Haile's class.....PERIOD.
Sir Lance Lot you did not understand me.
Offcour Haile is a far superior runner than Bauman.
But I think Haile do not have as good endurance as some other runners.
It is his phenomenal strength ws bodyweight gives him some more advantage.
In a 3k he can do laps 10sec behind 400m PB.
I know lot of runners who can go in 8-9sec behind 400m PB in a 3k. That is the Lopes trained endurance runners with very hard cotinius runs.
So I think records still can be broken by much when we have high speed 400m runners (47-49) going in hard endurance runs.
Ofen this runners who come from shorter distance they hate doing hard contiius runs. They go easy in their long runs . Giv Mamede Lopes Endurance
What I mean is: Mamede did 47 sec 400m If he can do the Lopes syle Endurance training and still mantain 400m PB than he can go 7min in the 3k. Then offcorse there will also be a need of specific endurance (Race Pace run) and not just speed and endurance.
Eur. champ.ship 1971
800m heat 2: 5. Fernando Mamede 1.48.4
1500m heat 1: 11. Fernando Mamede 3.49.3
Olympics 1972
1500m heat 7: 6. Fernando Mamede 3.45.1
not qualified for further rounds.
It seems that he has had the same problem through all his career: Not able to run chapoinships but a superb runner without mental pressure.
Bjorn wrote:
What I mean is: Mamede did 47 sec 400m If he can do the Lopes syle Endurance training and still mantain 400m PB than he can go 7min in the 3k. Then offcorse there will also be a need of specific endurance (Race Pace run) and not just speed and endurance.
He probably wasn't able to run 47 when he was 33-34 and at his best capacity for 10.000 m, although he was still very fast. I saw him doing 1:24 for the last 600 and almost catch up Lopes when they both ran sub 27:30 for 10000.
It's also about as Lydiard says: It doesn't help being fast if you don't have the strength (endurance) to use the speed when you need it. Peter Snell had the slowest PB for 200 in the 800m final i 1960 but he parked the field in the last. One journalsit said: "The other runners looked as if they missed the train".
Antonio Cabral; it is always a pleasure to read your contributions to this forum. By the way you'll maybe recognize me from
http://www.mariusbakken.com-forum
(as Ter).
I wonder: Have you posted any details about Mamede's training before. If not could you please write something about it? Did he train the "portoguese way" like the other runners or did he do something different?