Emma Coburn 9:11.42 American Record - THANK YOU

jjjjjjjjj wrote:

In the women's 3k, there is a 46 second gap from Slaney to Coburn. But only a 30 second gap from Rowbury, not under the cloud of any drug scandals, to Coburn.

Rowbury has run 8:31.38. 9:11.42 - 8:31.38 =/= 30, unless you're under the cloud of a math scandal.

8:06.81 - 7:30.16 (the fastest 3K by any American not under a cloud of being a Kenyan immigrant) = 36.65.

8:31.38/9:11.42 = 0.9274

7:30.16/8:06.81 = 0.9247

Looks pretty damned even to me.

Clique wrote:

[Stupid bullshit]

You don't like reading much, do you? Renato may acknowledge the doping part, but that's like admitting that the world is round. He has called those talking about a short track "idiots," and no, his English isn't better than mine or even yours. I admit that his Italian is better than mine, but I think I'll live anyway.

jjjjjjjjj wrote:

9:11 is not soft. The American high school record for 3k flat is 9:00. Americans typically run in the low to mid 8:40s each year. In the men's 3k, there is a 37 second gap from the flat to the steeple AR's. In the women's 3k, there is a 46 second gap from Slaney to Coburn. But only a 30 second gap from Rowbury, not under the cloud of any drug scandals, to Coburn.

Other than Emma Coburn, what has high altitude America produced?????

I'm talking born & raised at altitude......not moving there after college.

Okay, Ryan Hall.........but why not Chad?????

Altitude isn't a slamdunk to running greatness.

Why doesn't Utah dominate Footlocker every year?

messi wrote:

Other than Emma Coburn, what has high altitude America produced?????

If this is a genuine question, you are profoundly retarded and should turn over your laptop to your live-in caregiver immediately.

Confused? Well, here's some help: What fraction of the U.S. adult population do you think was both born and raised at high altitude (let's say 5,000') and lives there now?

I'll give you a hint: The answer is less than two percent, and way less than one percent if you bump that up to even 5,500'.

So please, shut your frigging mouth before I punch and kick and maim you Internetically.

julsome wrote:

I would go with Obiri- 8:20.. too much controversy over the Chinese runners in the early 90's to think that any of those times are clean, but that is just me.

The women's steeple wasn't a part of world championships until 2005 and was first part of the Olympics in 2008.

I wonder what a reasonable explanation is for the stalling of the event, after fast times when the event was first contested at the 2008 olympics. I would love to see Emma Coburn lead the chase back to the 9 minute barrier. With her stature and form, I think she has the beginning of what it will take.

Dibaba ran 8:16 indoors, which is probably worth about 8:11-8:12 on an outdoor track. 8:20 is definitely not equivalent to Komen's WR on the men's side.

Also, comparing women's steeplechase to men's steeplechase is made more difficult than comparing flat track races by the fact that the barriers the men clear are 20% higher. I get that men are taller, but they're not generally 20% taller than women. Watching the women's steeplechase, I feel like the barriers could and should be raised by several inches (Coburn would probably benefit from this). If anything, because of the relatively lower barriers, you would expect the ratio between flat 3000m and 3000m steeplechase to be closer for women than for men.

messi wrote:

jjjjjjjjj wrote:

9:11 is not soft. The American high school record for 3k flat is 9:00. Americans typically run in the low to mid 8:40s each year. In the men's 3k, there is a 37 second gap from the flat to the steeple AR's. In the women's 3k, there is a 46 second gap from Slaney to Coburn. But only a 30 second gap from Rowbury, not under the cloud of any drug scandals, to Coburn.

Other than Emma Coburn, what has high altitude America produced?????

I'm talking born & raised at altitude......not moving there after college.

Okay, Ryan Hall.........but why not Chad?????

Altitude isn't a slamdunk to running greatness.

Why doesn't Utah dominate Footlocker every year?

Tony Sandoval, maybe the most talented marathoner the US has produced.

George Young

Lynn Bjorklund

Chuck Aragon

Adam Goucher

Malmo probably has a comprehensive list of elite runners with altitude of childhood home.

Wang's junk -- see ya wrote:

jjjjjjjjj wrote:

In the women's 3k, there is a 46 second gap from Slaney to Coburn. But only a 30 second gap from Rowbury, not under the cloud of any drug scandals, to Coburn.

Rowbury has run 8:31.38. 9:11.42 - 8:31.38 =/= 30, unless you're under the cloud of a math scandal.

8:06.81 - 7:30.16 (the fastest 3K by any American not under a cloud of being a Kenyan immigrant) = 36.65.

8:31.38/9:11.42 = 0.9274

7:30.16/8:06.81 = 0.9247

Looks pretty damned even to me.

Clique wrote:

[Stupid bullshit]

You don't like reading much, do you? Renato may acknowledge the doping part, but that's like admitting that the world is round. He has called those talking about a short track "idiots," and no, his English isn't better than mine or even yours. I admit that his Italian is better than mine, but I think I'll live anyway.

Good post. But jjjjj's is right. 9:11 is not soft and very close to the best ever if you throw out the dubious Russian 8:58 WR. I hope Emma runs a 1,500 (or a 5,000) this year or possibly both, then comes back for maybe one more steeple. She's run quite a few already.

Couldn't agree more- women's steeple is slightly easier than the men's. Women originally used the same height barriers from 88-94' but at the 2K distance. A 5'7"-10" female should not be using 30" barriers. I think the entire discipline needs time to develop records that are worthy of other world class times. Sort of like how the women's polevault is catching up to the men's in terms of equivalencies. Women should be consistently running sub 9's. The men's WR holder has a 12:48 5K PR and a 7:32 3K PR. Adding 30 seconds to one's 3K flat time is generous. Subtracting 3 to 4 seconds from 5k pace per K should also give you a fairly accurate of your steeplechase potential if you have decent hurdle technique. I’d say the women’s AR for flat 3K is worth an 8:55. 8:55 would be 14:51 5000 meter pace and should easily be achievable by someone with that ability. You'd expect that from a men's college runner who had a 8:25/14:50 PR to be able to break a 9 in the steeple.

matador wrote:

Dibaba ran 8:16 indoors, which is probably worth about 8:11-8:12 on an outdoor track. 8:20 is definitely not equivalent to Komen's WR on the men's side.

Also, comparing women's steeplechase to men's steeplechase is made more difficult than comparing flat track races by the fact that the barriers the men clear are 20% higher. I get that men are taller, but they're not generally 20% taller than women. Watching the women's steeplechase, I feel like the barriers could and should be raised by several inches (Coburn would probably benefit from this). If anything, because of the relatively lower barriers, you would expect the ratio between flat 3000m and 3000m steeplechase to be closer for women than for men.

jjjjjjjjj wrote:

9:11 is not soft. The American high school record for 3k flat is 9:00. Americans typically run in the low to mid 8:40s each year. In the men's 3k, there is a 37 second gap from the flat to the steeple AR's. In the women's 3k, there is a 46 second gap from Slaney to Coburn. But only a 30 second gap from Rowbury, not under the cloud of any drug scandals, to Coburn.

That is because the Men's American 3K time is superior to the men's steeple time- you are comparing Lagat talent to Jager. If a steeplechaser had 13 flat 5K strength and 7:30 3K speed you would expect them to break 8 flat. I'm not sure Jager is able to do that, but he may get close. There is nearly 20 women outside the Chinese runners who have run 8:25 or better for 3000 meters. I'd say the Women's steeple WR should be closer to 8:49. Coburn looks like she has a possible 9 flat in her- she is still improving. I don't even know what her flat 3K PR is but it might be that 5000 is a better indicator for the steeple. The women's WR holder has a 14:33 5K best and a 8:41 indoor 3K PR.

julsome wrote:

I wonder what a reasonable explanation is for the stalling of the event, after fast times when the event was first contested at the 2008 olympics. I would love to see Emma Coburn lead the chase back to the 9 minute barrier. With her stature and form, I think she has the beginning of what it will take.

The same reason for the stalling out of every other distance event (other than the marathon and one year of the 800) since 2008.

matador wrote:

comparing women's steeplechase to men's steeplechase is made more difficult than comparing flat track races by the fact that the barriers the men clear are 20% higher. I get that men are taller, but they're not generally 20% taller than women. Watching the women's steeplechase, I feel like the barriers could and should be raised by several inches (Coburn would probably benefit from this). If anything, because of the relatively lower barriers, you would expect the ratio between flat 3000m and 3000m steeplechase to be closer for women than for men.

However, men don't give birth.

Therefore the men's barriers should be raised up several inches higher, and the women's should be kept where they are.

What is that reason that times haven't improved since 2008? Drug Testing? More incentive to take to the roads $$ wise? Sorry I really don't know.

Also, I was not saying that Coburn's record is soft, I was defending her when someone else posted that the women's steeple in general is soft as the WR was 50-60 seconds slower than the flat women's WR. I don't think you can give Dibaba 4 seconds off the 8:16 she ran indoors for an outdoor equivalent. It is what it is until she runs faster outdoor.

The argument that women's hurdles should be higher is not unique to the steeple. The intermediate hurdles are also 30 and 36 in high respectively in the women's and men's races. Raising them would likely benefit Coburn, but seems unlikely to happen. (And at this point, I hope it doesn't as the record book will then have to be rewritten). Personally, I find it interesting to see athletes with excellent form competing against those with more flat speed- it makes for an exciting race.

All in all, I think we can all agree that Coburn's record is NOT soft as American records are concerned. I think we can also safely argue that IF you compare the current level of world competition in the steeple this year to the current level of world competition in the flat 3k this year, it is relatively soft. This is not a negative reflection on Coburn, instead I was commending her for leading the charge towards faster times. I think we will see times closer to 9 min soon as Coburn, Ayalew and Assefa continue to cut down and Chemos starts to roll again. I hope someone besides Coburn steps up to lead at some point or they get a pacemaker that can go at least through 1400m. It will be fun to watch.

jjjjjjjjj wrote:

9:11 is not soft. The American high school record for 3k flat is 9:00. Americans typically run in the low to mid 8:40s each year. In the men's 3k, there is a 37 second gap from the flat to the steeple AR's. In the women's 3k, there is a 46 second gap from Slaney to Coburn. But only a 30 second gap from Rowbury, not under the cloud of any drug scandals, to Coburn.

For the record, my own distance 1500 to 10K PR's were very close to the current women AR's, including a 9:11 SC. Bearing in mind I did mine over 36" barriers and Coburn's were 30" that suggests that it's still a bit soft.

PoFolk wrote:

For the record, my own distance 1500 to 10K PR's were very close to the current women AR's, including a 9:11 SC. Bearing in mind I did mine over 36" barriers and Coburn's were 30" that suggests that it's still a bit soft.

Are you a woman?

If so, I've not heard of you unless you're from some other country.

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IAAF gives 9:11=8:27 flat for women, 8:18 for men. Seems about right.

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