Peer Mediator wrote:
new englander wrote:1: Jim Ryun himself said he was all around faster from 400-mile in 1967. That is from the horse's mouth. That is good enough for me.
2: There is a difference between the Coe & Ryun example you brought up. Ryun was running his best in the summer. He was running faster. He wasn't running serious 400s though. Coe on the other hand ran 800s many more times after his world record that year and none of them were anywhere close to his 1:41.73.
3: Ventolin didn't "state categorically" anything. He gave a published first hand account from a german reporter who was a former olympian. Then Said88 acquired the race and tells us that the last lap was 50.5 (not 50.6 as you said). He also hasn't posted the video and I doubt he ever will. So until someone does, then we can't be sure one way or another.
1. How many more names are you going to post under, Ventolin? Only such an ego would write with such reverence about himself.
2. Jim Ryun, via his son, via this site said he was faster in 67 to 66, but he didn't specify how much faster per event.
3. There is no difference between the examples I brought up re Ryun and Coe. You must be somewhat obtuse if you cannot see the contradiction.
From May until the end of the summer in 1967, Ryun ran 4 880yd races, his fastest time being 1:47.2. He ran 2 440yds in the same time frame and his fastest was 47.0. He improved his Mile WR by 0.1 and broke the 1500m WR.
But, based on a 1:47.2 you claim he could have run 1:39. You say he was faster in the summer, but the evidence is only over a mile and 1500. There is nothing below this distance to support him being faster over 400m, and you know it.
Coe was faster over 1000m, 1500m and 1 Mile as the summer progressed in 1981, setting 3 World records. He had no cause to further break the 800 as he already had it and was 1.7sec faster than anyone else in history.
For the rest of that season he ran 800s to win, but incidentally ran faster than 1:47.2 (Ryun's season best) 7 times after his WR in June, including a 1:44.5 en route to a 1000m WR that lasted 18 years. A 2:12 1k is a lot closer to 800 and 400 than Ryun's 1500pb. So just to spell it out, you are using a best of 1:47.2 from Ryun in 67 as evidence he could run 1:39, but the fact Coe ran a 1:44.5 is no evidence of anything!? That is just nonsense.
So the suggestion that Coe wasn't running fast later in the summer is rubbish.
4. You take what people say that supports what you want to believe as gospel, yet dismiss any first hand quotes that are made which contradict you. Deanouk has stated on here that Coe told him he could have run 1:41.2 later in 81 and 1:41.0 on a mondo track of today. That is no real stretch of the imagination as he actually ran 1:41.7 running wide on a bend. You ridicule an athlete himself (who you clearly can't stand for your own reasons) who suggests he could have run just 0.5 sec faster, yet abuse and offend anyone who questions your claim that Ryun could have run 4.4secs faster than he actually ever did (and that was the season before!), and over 7 secs faster than he did that season, over the same distance. The same applies for 1500 and the mile. Coe has said he should have run 3:28.0 and a 3:44 mile, Ryun has never claimed he could have run 3:24 or 3:41.
5. Ventolin DID state categorically on these boards that the German account was the most reliable source of the Dusseldorf race, and you abused and ridiculed various other posters who questioned it. When it was found to be wrong, you didn't even have the ba**s to apologise or admit you were wrong.
The same with Carl Lewis's non altitude LJ record, the length of the World X Country course, etc, etc.
I will take Said88's word over yours and your aliases any time.
1) ROFL! As far as I know, Ventolin is an indian doctor from kenya living in the UK. I am an american college kid. You however seem deeply paranoid, as about half your responses to people who disagree with you seem to include you accusing them to be Ventolin posting under a different name.
2) You said:
"it does not always prove to be the case that an athlete will automatically get faster over 400m from 19 to 20"
and
"That is evidence to suggest that he was no faster than he had been in 66"
We were fortunate to have Jim Ryun's son chime in, as well as relaying this very question to his dad. He posted his dad's answer which was:
"Ventolin-dad said definitely 1967. He said, "It was an unbelievable year.""
There was no hesitation. No, "maybe a bit faster in 1967". It was a clear answer FROM THE HORSES'S MOUTH. From Jim Ryun himself. Saying you are wrong.
3) Unlike Ventolin, or youself, or Deanouk, I am not going to write a novel length chapter debating this, as you three have been doing that for several years and no one has changed their mind, so what's the point?
Again, I am not Ventolin, so no, "I" didn't "abuse and ridicule various other posters who questioned it." I remember the thread in question quite well as I just reread it a few days ago. I still stand by what I said. If you want to remember said events differently that's fine.
Lastly you said: "I will take Said88's word over yours and your aliases any time."
Umm, what? What word of mine would that be?