i agree with you. I can't tell you how many times i've met a runner who "could" have broke 4 minutes in the mile if only....they have no idea of the work and luck involved to get that right. And for the previous poster who said us old farts are idiots, I couldn't disagree. None of us ever claimed we weren't!
A 1500m conversion is NOT a mile time and will not appear in any mile rankings list. If you want to claim a mile time, race a mile! Anything else is mere conjecture. Sack up or shut up!
[quote]Flagpole wrote:
No freaking way. So many of them don't even report. Steve Spence still breaks 5:00 every year. MOST college runners who turn 45 could train and break 5:00 if they wanted to. It's not that great a feat. I'm fat and 47 and I could do it in 9 months if I trained (and didn't get injured -- that part is unlikely)..
[quote]
FP:
You usually are pretty reasoned.
Sub 5 at age 47 is very difficult.
You would have to be your college weight and in decent shape - training at nearly a college level.
I am much faster than you, at every age; this would be a difficult task for me, and I bet: impossible for you.
All due respect
To gun wrote:
A 1500m conversion is NOT a mile time and will not appear in any mile rankings list. If you want to claim a mile time, race a mile! Anything else is mere conjecture. Sack up or shut up!
Did mid 4:50s into late 40s and 5:00 at 50 and 51. But if someone runs 4:38 or 4:39 at 1500 I got no problem with a conversion.
Neither would i and didn't mean to suggest i did. If you run under 4:40 for 1500 then I agree you WOULD have run under 5 for the mile. That being said, i do know a few individuals who ran the equivalent of a sub 4 mile in the 1500 and never actually broke it in the full mile. I don't think the demon ever leaves you having that ultimate goal unfulfilled.
"Would have" isn't did! It's track and field not ice dancing.
To gun wrote:
"Would have" isn't did! It's track and field not ice dancing.
Post-45 (and especially post-50), a fast 1500 should be treated as a stand-in for a statistically equivalent mile time. That's because the fast 1500 just might end your season and leave you unable to test yourself in the mile later!
Seriously, you can't be a sub-4 miler without actually running sub-4. But most of us masters guys have a lot looser standards for judging our peers. We know how hard it is to string enough training together to run fast at all--and we know that using that training to post a fast time is dangerous in itself. I ran 31:11 for 10K at age 50, and the race injured me so badly that I didn't race again for 8 months! LOL!
So we give one another some latitude. You should too. ;-)
One other thing, I think our fastest Cal Coast 45-and-older runner at 1500 was left off that earlier list: SoCal Cush, who ran 3:55.09 at age 45. Does that count as a sub-5 minute mile? LOL again!
"Should be" isn't did either.
not proud, but faster than you wrote:
[quote]Flagpole wrote:
No freaking way. So many of them don't even report. Steve Spence still breaks 5:00 every year. MOST college runners who turn 45 could train and break 5:00 if they wanted to. It's not that great a feat. I'm fat and 47 and I could do it in 9 months if I trained (and didn't get injured -- that part is unlikely)..
[quote]
FP:
You usually are pretty reasoned.
Sub 5 at age 47 is very difficult.
You would have to be your college weight and in decent shape - training at nearly a college level.
I am much faster than you, at every age; this would be a difficult task for me, and I bet: impossible for you.
All due respect
Nah...I don't think that's true. Moot point though because I'm not willing to try, and as I said earlier, injuries would likely be my undoing. Part of me wants to try though...would be a GREAT YouTube thing. I just have other life goals though, so this isn't really interesting enough to attempt.
Right of Switzerland wrote:
Thank you, that's my point. The poster, flagpole, was claiming this person and that person could do it because they ran in college. Sorry, I say bs on that theory as say either did or didn't. Breaking 5 minutes at age 50, in my opinion, is quite an effort and hats off to those who have done it.
1) The age range in question was 45-49, NOT 50.
2) I didn't say it wasn't a good feat...just that WAY more than 15 could do it. 45 is NOT that old. College runners (even halfway decent D3 ones) who ran 4:30 or faster could have a VERY good chance at breaking 5:00 with sustained training assuming they didn't have injury issues (and of course many do, myself included).
3) Props ALWAYS go to those who achieve, but this thread was borne out of someone saying that only 15 people in the WORLD age 45-49 could break 5:00...that is just SO not true and achievable by a ton of former college runners.
To gun wrote:
"Should be" isn't did either.
awww, c'mon "to gun," give me my sub-5. after my 3:55 1500m, i "should be" able to walk an extra 100+ meters in under a minute.
however, i would dispute socal pete's claim even with sub-4 milers, at least within reason: a 3:42 1500m probably shouldn't brag about being a sub-4 miler, but i'd give a 3:40 guy credit, even though he wouldn't make any official list. but that's just me--i'm sure others would not...
by the way, 12 guys ran an "actual mile" indoors under 5 minutes in the 45-49 age group at nationals today (nice race by nick berra with a 4:34, who does "sack up" year in, year out in the mile, though he also has the luxury of living on the east coast where indoor miles are common). i "should have" been able to break 5, but i ran a 441 1600m/9:4? 3200m before dropping out of an outdoor 5k on the track after 9 laps. officially, though, i will finish the year with no sub-5s :(...
There is your answer than OP. A sub 5 mile in the 45-49 age group will get you into the final at indoor nationals. "Might", "should have" and "could" run sub 5 won't.
Yes, that might be true. I'm nearing 60 and thinking of giving it a go. The times are very slow at this age. But even if I do break 5 minutes at age 60, and I think I can, all it means is I don't have a life. There are so many better things to do than run.
I'm in my 50s and I could break 5 with a 56 second PR.
go gun wrote:
I guess we need to add "think I can" to the list of "should", "could have", "will", "converts to", etc.
Listen up you stupid old farts, you need to actually go out and run a sub five mile, not speculate on your ability to do so.
Sack up or shut up!
Ha ha! Thank you for clearing this up for me. But so I'm absolutely clear:
*Does sub-5 count if you run it in a longer race?--(e.g., I never ran sub-5 after age 44, but I did run 14:34 for 5000 at age 46).
*Does it count if I run it in a workout?
*How about a non-USATF sanctioned all-comers meet?--(because USATF wouldn't acknowledge that)
*How about in a USATF sanctioned meet which is missing a meet director with a USATF certification?--(because USATF wouldn't consider that an official time either)
*How about on the road in a certified mile?--(because, of course, the distance doesn't have to be exactly a mile in order to be certified)
*How many timers are required for this official time to take place?
*Does there need to be FAT backup?
*Etc.
In any case, you seem to be missing the point, although I recognize that your real point is to entertain yourself (run out of Kleenex, have we?). It's not that anyone believes running a 1500 time that indicates sub-5 potential is the exact same thing as running sub-5. It's that a bunch of old guys who want to acknowledge other old guys as sub-5 caliber runners--based on those conversions--get to do it whether it pleases you or not. Of course, you obviously have the right to your opinion, but you certainly don't speak for "track and field" or for its older--or younger--participants.
So listen up, fellow old guys trying to break 5 minutes: Unlike our judgmental and inexperienced friends on this thread, I and other old guys understand how hard it is to get healthy and then stay there. We know that the masters mantra of "As soon as you're fit, find a race and run it!" often precludes being too picky about what race that will be. And if that race ends up being a 1500 and you run about 4:37 or better, rest assured that the vast majority of us will recognize you as sub-5 minute milers ... and then will share a laugh with you that we've reached a point where such a thing is a prized accomplishment.
By the way, young gunners, have YOU ever run a sub-5? If so, prove it. If not or if you're unwilling to provide proof, perhaps you should, let's see, how to put this, oh yes: Sack up or shut up.
Yes, you are right. It is track and field, and it only counts if you race the actual distance on a track. It's not me you need to please, you need to adhere to the rules of track and field (not road racing, treadmill times, training times, estimations, conversions, etc.) if you want to get on a ranking list. The same rules apply to sub four miles. Do it in a mile race on the track or shut the f up. You don't get ranked anywhere for a time unless YOU ACTUALLY DO IT IN A RACE OF THE ACTUAL DISTANCE. These rules don't change when you turn 40.
Flagpole wrote:
Right of Switzerland wrote:Thank you, that's my point. The poster, flagpole, was claiming this person and that person could do it because they ran in college. Sorry, I say bs on that theory as say either did or didn't. Breaking 5 minutes at age 50, in my opinion, is quite an effort and hats off to those who have done it.
1) The age range in question was 45-49, NOT 50.
2) I didn't say it wasn't a good feat...just that WAY more than 15 could do it. 45 is NOT that old. College runners (even halfway decent D3 ones) who ran 4:30 or faster could have a VERY good chance at breaking 5:00 with sustained training assuming they didn't have injury issues (and of course many do, myself included).
3) Props ALWAYS go to those who achieve, but this thread was borne out of someone saying that only 15 people in the WORLD age 45-49 could break 5:00...that is just SO not true and achievable by a ton of former college runners.
1) Irrelevant.
2) I never said 45 or even 50 was THAT old.
3) Just because others have done it and you "allegedly" beat them in high school doesn't mean that you "could" too. The old "I beat you before so you can never beat me" theory doesn't fly. With that logic, anyone who ran faster than Brian Sell in high school and college should have been able to beat him in a marathon, right? Sorry, I doubt the 9:30 guy could have run 2:10 just because Brian did.
If if and buts were candy and nuts, it'd be Christmas every day. The whole point is to give credit for those who stayed in shape and injury-free and ACTUALLY did break 5 minutes, yes even at age 45. It is much harder than you imply. Lots of us have different interests, but that doesn't mean we "could" do it too just because we think we could if we devoted more time. Again, I call bs and that and give major props to those who have.
I have no clue who you are, but I don't believe for one minute that you could lose your excessive weight and then train to break 5 minutes all in 9 months at age 45.
Is it possible...sure. Probable...no way. If you're really 45 then you are talking about your abilities from almost 3 decades ago and that's light years in running.
Sorry, but I respectfully disagree with your logic and for the record.
Flagpole wrote:
Right of Switzerland wrote:Thank you, that's my point. The poster, flagpole, was claiming this person and that person could do it because they ran in college. Sorry, I say bs on that theory as say either did or didn't. Breaking 5 minutes at age 50, in my opinion, is quite an effort and hats off to those who have done it.
1) The age range in question was 45-49, NOT 50.
2) I didn't say it wasn't a good feat...just that WAY more than 15 could do it. 45 is NOT that old. College runners (even halfway decent D3 ones) who ran 4:30 or faster could have a VERY good chance at breaking 5:00 with sustained training assuming they didn't have injury issues (and of course many do, myself included).
3) Props ALWAYS go to those who achieve, but this thread was borne out of someone saying that only 15 people in the WORLD age 45-49 could break 5:00...that is just SO not true and achievable by a ton of former college runners.
1) Irrelevant.
2) I never said 45 or even 50 was THAT old.
3) Just because others have done it and you "allegedly" beat them in high school doesn't mean that you "could" too. The old "I beat you before so you can never beat me" theory doesn't fly. With that logic, anyone who ran faster than Brian Sell in high school and college should have been able to beat him in a marathon, right? Sorry, I doubt the 9:30 guy could have run 2:10 just because Brian did.
If if and buts were candy and nuts, it'd be Christmas every day. The whole point is to give credit for those who stayed in shape and injury-free and ACTUALLY did break 5 minutes, yes even at age 45. It is much harder than you imply. Lots of us have different interests, but that doesn't mean we "could" do it too just because we think we could if we devoted more time. Again, I call bs and that and give major props to those who have.
I have no clue who you are, but I don't believe for one minute that you could lose your excessive weight and then train to break 5 minutes all in 9 months at age 45.
Is it possible...sure. Probable...no way. If you're really 45 then you are talking about your abilities from almost 3 decades ago and that's light years in running.
Sorry, but I respectfully disagree with your logic.
There are no 'rules' here. Check the OPs initial post.In my book a legit track race or certified, non aided road race count. And when I look at where I stack in the outdoor mile I also peek at indoors and the 1500 lists. Fully knowing that there are others out there not recorded. Not a big deal and no reason to shout about it. Take some decaf!
go gun wrote:
Yes, you are right. It is track and field, and it only counts if you race the actual distance on a track. It's not me you need to please, you need to adhere to the rules of track and field (not road racing, treadmill times, training times, estimations, conversions, etc.) if you want to get on a ranking list. The same rules apply to sub four miles. Do it in a mile race on the track or shut the f up. You don't get ranked anywhere for a time unless YOU ACTUALLY DO IT IN A RACE OF THE ACTUAL DISTANCE. These rules don't change when you turn 40.