Anyone ever had a "Sports Hernia" aka: "Sportsman's hernia", "Gilmore's groin", or &quot

Soccerdad, Waves2ya-

Thanx again for all the feedback. The comments regarding Dr Cattey are good to hear. Its kind of what I expected to hear, after doing some research and getting that good first impression of him mainly as a good guy.

Waves2ya, I'm taking what you're saying very seriously. You seem real knowledgable in the area and as a patient foremost, I don't take it lightly. I'm still in the dark as I haven't gotten the MRI or bone scan, heck, still working on getting health insurance period. Trying not to jump the gun, but I feel very confident I have this this general injury, to what extent, I have no idea. I'm sure the eventual bone scan/MRI will speak volumes, or not, but I'm weighing the surg/no surg thing in my head. I'm still, thankfully, able to follow alot of my pursuits. In fact, the only one off hand that I can't really do is long distance running, which is tough to swallow, but might have to come to grips with as not to compromise the other activities I can do relatively pain free. Its been a year and half since I first noticed it, I've been able to run 10k's (the limit) at a pretty good clip, and work as a ski patroller, putting in 180 days, with little to no problem, and I don't want to compromise this. So, again, I hear ya, and am not rushing in by any means the instant fix mode.

What i do know is RICE, deep tissue massage, and extended periods of rest do nothing to appease it. Its still there, and not going anywhere.

So, i know this is repetetive, but just wanted to say thanx again for all the info and comments as I go down this road. Keep 'em comin!

ROC-

An MRI won't show athletic pubalgia. One of the presenting things about APis that it doesn't show up on any x-ray nor MRI. I went to see Dr. Meyers with negative x=rays, negative MRI, 5 months of PT under my belt, no running, meds, etc. I had the surgery and it is about 8 months post=operative and I can honestly say I feel exactly the same way I did before the surgery. Not sure where that leaves me now. I feel quite lost - Meyers did what he had to do; I am interesting if there are any other runners out there who had the surgery and felt that it wasn't all that successful. At this point I am considering going to Dr. Cattey, but kind of scared of having someone else going in there. Living with this pain ain't the best.

Dashing off a couple of notes here - funny how this non-threaded let's run message board has become the best place for AP data - but there it is. From the first post, much data is spot on (and I wonder how that first guys doing...). So - thank you Let's Run mods & community for giving us this place to compare notes. Anyhow...

Athletic Pubalgia is often a diagnosis of exclusion; you exclude everything else. For at least 2 months my "world class" GP flailed around, checking for blood disorders, etc. (I don't blame him for that - even the best sport's MD's miss AP) but finally decided it was 'in my head' (because *he* couldn't figure it out; again, typical for chronic pain sufferers - and this is where that guy is a lousy doc) and went to a round of SSRI's. That was about 3 mo's of searching out and by then, thank God for the internet, I started to figure this. I'll add one thing typical to many presentations - incredible fatigue. Another 'false friend' in the symptomatic path is a kind of mono like tiredness; Chris Perry had it and they treated him for mono before coming to the AP conclusion. In fact, sufferers should watch the IR lists; Matt Birk (Vikings) is going back in for surgery (hip labrum; why this is closer and presents more like a labral tear than folks generally know), Jon McGraw may not make the Lions, Travis LaBoy is struggling to make the Titians - But Heath Miller has come to the Steelers as a 1st round pick.

Soccerdad - how dad cool are you...? A lot of great things is your post, first among them the last - pain free you'll not be w/ these surgeries. This is about function, and the hopeful buttress against compartment decay. Please keep us informed about your son, if you'd be so kind. I collect stories re: AP - to serve as my own inspiration - also to help me come to terms with the path. You know what they say about swords & fire; tests the metal and can make the best stronger and sharper. Don't let your son push it - "time is the greatest tincture of medicine" - I'll be rooting for him as much as any big $$ jock.

Dr. Meyer's is a world class liver surgeon. He's saying lives every week battling, basically, cancer. Life & death stuff. AP surgery is a hobby for him - he calls it his hobby in any number of publications/interviews. However, he remains, in the US, considered the leading expert in the restoration of athletes suffering debilitating groin injuries to the playing field. He is about the most intense guy I've ever met, in a kind of jet fighter pilot way. He was very supportive prior to surgery. And he could not have come more highly recommended for surgical pro's I know (NYC area). He did little in the way of a physical examination (the 'tongue depressor/sit up test') but considered my MRI's for more than an hour. He discussed his success and failure rate, which he presented to me as pretty capably statistical, and said he thought he could help. This was about 3 + yrs ago (I've other posts about the heavy surgery and how I'm doing now; better, but with real caveats...). Post surgery his guidance was minimal - less documentation than routine hernia surgery. He rehab was photocopied and was, as I've come to craft my own way out of this mess, what I'd consider poor. He didn't call and calls to him/his PT team were not insightful (to say the least). I felt that once it was established I was not going to be in his '12 wks and back on the field' group - I was a curious dilemma. I have never heard from Dr. Meyers again - and was never asked to participate in a post surgical survey for results. I truly wonder what he means now when I read about his 3000+ surgeries and deftly presents success/failure rates. That said - he's a surgeon. I believe he went in and did the best he could do as he understands it. And any other remediation he presents will be - duh - surgical. And why I put my head down to do the best with what he gave me following this learned guidance... "the muscles lead the bones".

Not to get off topic - but the problem with chronic pain is, it cuts a groove. Once that groove is in place it is very hard to unwire the pain signal pathways. There's no sure bet that fortification by Dr. Cattey, or repairs of other radiologically evidenced deficiency will stop the pain - and why to focus on function (until the pain drives you crazy)...

~waves

(ps. other sites for, unfortunately, related inspiration;

http://www.braintalk.org

and

http://www.backpainsupportgroup.com

; closer to this sticky wicket than most would want to admit and if you wade thru & listen carefully, things to learn...)

Waves2ya

thanks for you inciteful post. yes this message board is becoming quite informative re: AP. I do feel quite alone in having my surgery not a success. It seems the people who have responded on this board who have had Dr. Meyers perform their surgery are doing quite well and they mention other runners as well. I guess I am in the 5% failure group that Dr. Meyers talks about.

Quite discouraging to say the least to be back where i was over a year ago - looking how to fix this problem. I do not feel like going the PT route AGAIN, the ART therapy AGAIN.

I also had a similar experience with Dr. Meyers post-op. He is a surgeon he said he did what he had to do. He gave me the impression that he didn't have to deal with that many bad outcomes. He is a surgeon i realize that so I understand where he is coming from.

But ..... where to do now when surgery was to be the last resort and the fix to my problem......

Waves2ya

thanks for you inciteful post. yes this message board is becoming quite informative re: AP. I do feel quite alone in having my surgery not a success. It seems the people who have responded on this board who have had Dr. Meyers perform their surgery are doing quite well and they mention other runners as well. I guess I am in the 5% failure group that Dr. Meyers talks about.

Quite discouraging to say the least to be back where i was over a year ago - looking how to fix this problem. I do not feel like going the PT route AGAIN, the ART therapy AGAIN.

I also had a similar experience with Dr. Meyers post-op. He is a surgeon he said he did what he had to do. He gave me the impression that he didn't have to deal with that many bad outcomes. He is a surgeon i realize that so I understand where he is coming from.

But ..... where to do now when surgery was to be the last resort and the fix to my problem......

Waves2ya

Thanks for the inciteful post.

I agree this message board has become quie a resource regarding AP. From reading the posts - it seems I am the only runner out there (or at least on this board) whom has had the surgery performed by Dr. Meyers and it failed. Prior to having the surgery I did the route everyone else did and I thought I finally find my answer - surgery. Well one year later and I am where I was before the surgery, perhaps a tad worse.

I agree Dr. Meyers hasn't been all that responsive post-op. I am not one of his patients that have had a success AND I am not a professional athlete I guess I fell into the 5% failure group. I understand - Dr. Meyers is a surgeon and he did what he had to do. That leaves me on my own and having to try and figure it out. I do NOT want to go to PT again, or all the assorted treatments I did pre-surgery. Meyers said he did what had to be done - what else can he do?

So I am left trying to figure out how to run again.

Is there anyone else there in a similar situation with som advice on how to get back on the roads again. Should I consider seeing Dr. Cattey?

Thanks

I got AP when in was about four years ago and did everything before going to see cattey. I felt the same after his surgery, so a year and a half later I went to see meyers. He said he fixed the damage but like you I still can't run. At times I feel better but I still have a lot of the same pain in my stomach and also a sharp pain in my thigh (even after my adductor was released). I don't really know what to do about my stomach, but it is not as bad as it was, but i still can't exercise. However, I also read about obturator nerve entrapment in the thigh/pelvis area and got a MRN which did show nerve irritation in that area. I don't want more surgery, but at least I feel as if I still have a hope to find a source of my pain. Just to be clear this isn't a result of any surgery, it is the same pain I had before the surgery.

Me!!

Hey, I experienced the same thing. it was between my groing and lower abdomen on both sides. I took MSM Glucosamine Sulfate and Mag-K Chela-Max along with Peltier water and End Fatigue Pain Formula with Fatigued to Fantastic Daily Energy Infusion along with some motrin to help out. I also iced 50 minutes a day and did abductor excersises(lying down because seated ones use those injured muscles) and some outer oblique excercises. I had to quit two jobs because I could not stand any more and I had to stop my training routine to play collegiate soccer. After over two months of no use and doing this every day I am now practising with the team and getting in shape to play. I experienced no improvements until about two months and a week of doing nothing and I thought I would have to get surgery but I am doing much better now. I am also 19 years old so being young helps me heal faster i think. Hope this helps you.

Glad you feel better, but be careful. I am the same age and tried to run through this while going to physical therapy and I wish I had not. Now I have PF in my heel and what was once pain in my upper thigh is now also in my stomach on both sides.

I would like to first say that I am not a runner by any means... I am a 39 year old soccer player (goalie) who still plays at a fairly competitive level... anyway, I have read every post on this thread as I have found it searching for all the same symptoms you all describe... but I have a slight "bulge" --- Inguinal Hernia ? The "bulge" has just recently appeared after some house work and the prior symptoms have been around for about a year. Can the AP you speak off be accompanied but a lump or bulge? Thanks in advance for any info… I am in Orlando FL if anyone knows a “good” doctor to visit

anyone??

I had no bulge and I have never seen ro heard that being AP. Sounds more like a straight hernia. Go see a doc as regular hernia is easy to find.

It's kind of unclear, but it seems like people are not crazy about the mesh inserted and would rather have what Dr Meyers is doing? How different are the two approaches really?

If Dr meyers is not using mesh, how is he doing it different? I guess I really don't understand exactly what is being done?

hey guys, you've all provided me with some useful information. I'm a hockey player, played in college, still playing in men's leagues.

anyway, back in may i felt a pop in my stomach while skating, went down like a ton of bricks, was on crutches for 3 days. felt a little better after a few weeks, regular orthopedist told me it was a severe groin pull. "an MRI won't tell him anything". OK....i take his word. Six weeks later, i try to play softball and it pops again. Not as bad as teh first time. So now, I've been in PT for nearly 2 months and while my groin and hip flexor may be stronger, I still have severe pain in the lower abdmomen/adductor/groin area. any action of pulling in or resitance to pulling in feels like there is a rubberband in my stomach that is about to snap, extremely painful.

I went to teh see the NY Rangers team doctor, he recommened 2 months of conservative therapy before surgery. He is recommending Dr. Meyers (he's in Philly, correct?). Anyway, I'm 27 years old. I'm concerned that my atheltic enjoyment may be coming to an abrupt halt. Am i going to get better without this surgery? It's been nearly 6 months now and the pain is virtually the same. and i haven't done ANY exercise, other than the PT, since mid-July.

any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Mr. Guy - sounds like you've got it.

If the Ranger's would send you to Dr. Meyers, then you should go see the man on the mount; Phila's not that far away for you. You sound ready...

Turns out the good doc's home town is a petri dish of sorts for AP - the Phila Eagles have a number of guys that are walking/have walked the walk, including the premiere QB in the league, Dononvan McNabb. And, as threads here reflect, even big boys have mixed results...

"...On whether T.O.’s (Terrell Owen) current situation is still considered a sports hernia:

“He had a procedure done to fix it. Was it as successful as the one that was done with Sheldon? No, I’ll say that. He’s still aggravated by it, where Sheldon is not. You have to manage that with T.O. and he does a great job of it. He understands the exercises that need to be done. He’s religious about it, doing the exercises and he has handled it very well over the last five years or so since he has had the procedure done.”

http://www.sportsfeatures.com/PressPoint/show.php?id=25403

~waves

thanks Waves, much appreciated.

another question for you, if you'd be so kind to tolerate my lack of knowledge. Most of the reading i've done on this injury seems to detail a progressively aggravating and deteriorating condition. to the point, that it gets unbareable and stopping sports is the only treatment. In my case, I would have minor tightness - no pain - in my groin, but i'd stretch it out and no worries. then with 3 minutes left in teh 3rd period of my last game in may, it popped. I haven't seen any record of people going down in agony with this injury.

I went to see a general surgeon at NYU before I saw the Ranger's doctor. he eventually let me get an MRI where tehy found a partial tear of the adductor. I brought the results to the Ranger's doctor, and he's the one that diagnosed it as the Athletic Pubalgia or sports hernia. Is the adductor tear part of the injury, the actual injury, or is it something different that requires something more than what is common treatment for AP?

thanks again!

Presentation runs the gamut from occult to association w/ a specific event. And with many variations on complaint. The Eagles McNabb vs. Dirk Johnson (kicker) is perfect example. For Dirk, he was having trouble getting out of bed, out of cars, up steps; Donovan's not there - yet.

Why to see Dr. Meyers (read my prior notes); you are paying for this experts differential diagnosis as much as whether you are a prospective candidate for his repair. And, yes, his repair is a 'release' of the adductors and repair of the pelvic floor where the rec abs attach at the pubis. The compartmental instability is marked by trauma to add's and rec ab's leading to pubic complaint; usually tear in rec ab's have add's doing too much (esp. hockey/soccer players).