Fastest kick in track history.

Morceli used to go from 300/400 out with a long surge, more like Cram at his best. His actual kick in terms of rapid acceleration over a short distance, certainly wasn't as good as Coe or Ovett's.

deanouk wrote:

Where and when?

dusseldorf, west germany 1967

i seem to recall juhu vaatahan (sp) of finland running the last 400m of the european 5k championship in 1971 in around 50 flat, beating a top field.

"In 1967 [Ryun] had beaten Kip Keino in a wonderful 1500m in Los Angeles with a WR of 3:33.1, covering the last 1000m in under 2:19, and had then beaten the top Germans with a final 300m in 36.1 - a finish that would remain unmatched more than 30 years later."

Page 140 of

http://www.usatf.org/statistics/champions/OlympicTrials/HistoryOfTheOlympicTrials.pdf

someone had to do it wrote:

deanouk wrote:

Where and when?

dusseldorf, west germany 1967

No, it was given as 50.6 in T&FN at the time. A friend has seen the race on video and he come up with 50.8. Certainly not under 50.

deanouk wrote:

No, it was given as 50.6 in T&FN at the time. A friend has seen the race on video and he come up with 50.8. Certainly not under 50.

Which issue of T&FN? Which page?

There is no way that a video copy of a celluloid film would be accurate anyway.

historyreader wrote:

"In 1967 [Ryun] had beaten Kip Keino in a wonderful 1500m in Los Angeles with a WR of 3:33.1, covering the last 1000m in under 2:19, and had then beaten the top Germans with a final 300m in 36.1 - a finish that would remain unmatched more than 30 years later."

Page 140 of

http://www.usatf.org/statistics/champions/OlympicTrials/HistoryOfTheOlympicTrials.pdf

His last 300m in that German race was given as 36.4 in T&FN. A friend of mine who has seen the race in the uni archive library said it was 37.1.

So we have 3 different claims, that differ by 1.0 sec and 2 of those would have been hand times, which are notoriously vague. Without the race actually being available for the wider public to view, any wildly ott claims remain purely myth.

37.1 and 50.8 seem on the generous side, sub 50 and 36.1 are simply impossible and have evolved through word of mouth. In 5 years time someone will likely claim he ran the last 300 in 35 something.

calling you out wrote:

deanouk wrote:

No, it was given as 50.6 in T&FN at the time. A friend has seen the race on video and he come up with 50.8. Certainly not under 50.

Which issue of T&FN? Which page?

There is no way that a video copy of a celluloid film would be accurate anyway.

T&FN editor Cordner Nelson published a book called "The Milers" . It was published by T&FN and its contents comes predominantly from the pages of T&FN issues. On P.332 it says, "Thus his last 300 meters took only 36.4, ...His last 400 was also fastest on record - 50.6".

And are you seriously suggesting that an actual archive video of the race wouldn't be accurate, but differing hand timed splits which have changed over the years are accurate? Please.

There are so many reported stats from over the years that are wrong and can be proven so by looking at the original recording of the race. As a classic example, Aouita's last 100m in his Nice race was reported as 11.7 at the time. This actually appeared in the pages of AW. I knew straight away that this was impossible in a 3:29. But this was 1985 and the race was seen all around the world within the next few weeks, and is for all to see on YouTube. People, including statisticians (clearly not very good ones) had mistakenly thought the line entering the straight was the 100m line. It was, in fact, the 90m line, and his 100m split was only later rectified as 13.1.

If this could happen in 1985, then it doesn't give ovewhelming confidence in a hand time split taken in 67, which has no video in the general public's domain.

Let's think about it. Kipchirchir ran a 36.7 last 300m in a 3:52 1500m race. He was a 3:30 performer. Do we really think Ryun was capable of a 36.1 in a pace 14 seconds faster? Anyone with a sense of realism would dismiss this out of hand. I have trouble believing even 37.1, but this is at least within the realms of possibility.

Was that faster than Johnson's 9.2 or Blake's 9.12? If you get into relay splits and middle 100s things can get extremely quick. Bolt and Powell have split 8.71 and 8.7, Gay split an 8.72 middle 100 in his 19.41. These aren't exactly kicks though ; they're world class sprinting performances.

So to recap, in terms of extremes, Kipchirchir has gone 49.xx in a 1500. Coe 11.3 in an 800? (would have to be confirmed but I believe it in light of the above.) These were not in fast races, but represent what is possible in a middle distance race.

70S GUY.. wrote:

i seem to recall juhu vaatahan (sp) of finland running the last 400m of the european 5k championship in 1971 in around 50 flat, beating a top field.

Vaatainen ran 53.8 at the end of the 10k, all of it in the final 300m. Brendan Foster comments on this memorable race.

He ran 52.8 at the end of the 5k -- again, all of it in the final 300m.

Fast laps collected from other threads:

50.8 Ovett 1980 Oly 27.2, 27.4, 26.5, 24.3 (54.6/50.8) 1:45.4

51.2 Coe 1980 Olympics 27.3, 27.4, 26.7, 24.5 (54.7/51.2)

53.0….Coe….1984 Olympics 3:32.53

49.9… Cram … 87 Euro 3:45.5

51.5....Morceli....1991 WC 3:32.85

50.7....Cacho......1992 Olympics 3:40.12

50.6....Morceli....1993 WC 25.2, 50.6, 1:49.0, in a 3:34.24 race

51.3....Morceli....1995 WC 25.9, 51.28, 1:49.0 3:33.73

53.6....Morceli....1996 Olympics

51.5....ElGuerrouj.1997 WC

53.9....ElGuerrouj.2003 WC

51.9....ElGuerrouj.2004 Olympics (12.7,12.9,12.9,13.4) (but Silva had 51.3)

54.1....Ramzi......2005 WC (but Kaouch had 53.1)

5000

53.9….Aouita….Oslo 85 13:00.4WR

52.8….Aouita….1987 WC 13:26.3

52.2…Morcelli….1994 Zurich 13:03.85

53.4…. Kipchoge…2003 WC 12:52.79

53.5…. El Guerrouj…2003 WC 12:52.83

53.6…. Bekele…2003 WC 12:53.12

2007 13:45.87 - 52.3 (Bernard Lagat)

2005 13:32.55 - 54.2 (Benjamin Limo)

2004 13:14.39 - 52.6 (Hicham El Guerrouj)

2003 12:52.79 - 53.4 (Eliud Kipchoge)

2001 13:00.77 - ???? (Richard Limo)

2000 13:35.49 - ???? (Million Wolde)

1999 12:58.13 - 56.0 (Salah Hissou)

1997 13:07.38 - ???? (Daniel Komen)

1996 13:07.96 - 54.9 (Venuste Niyongabo)

1995 13:16.77 - 56.6 (Ismael Kirui)

1993 13:02.75 - 60.0 (Ismael Kirui)

1992 13:12.52 - 56.1 (Dieter Baumann)

1991 13:14.45 - ???? (Yobes Ondieki)

1988 13:11.70 - 60.3 (John Ngugi)

1987 13:26.44 - 53.2 (Said Aouita)

1984 13:05.59 - 55.0 (Said Aouita)

1983 13:28.53 - 57.3 (Eamonn Coghlan)

1980 13:21.0h - 54.9 (Miruts Yifter)

1976 13:24.8h - 55.4 (Lasse Viren)

1972 13:26.4h - ???? (Lasse Viren)

1968 14:05.0h - 54.8 (Mohamed Gammoudi)

10000

53.9….Bayessa…1992 Oslo 27:15

2003 WC 5000

53.4 Kipchoge 12:52.79

53.5 El Guerrouj 12:52.83

53.6 Bekele 12:53.12

2004 Oly 5000

52.6 Bekele (2nd) 13:14

2004 Oly 10000

52.9 Bekele

Sebastian Coe Ecup79 200 in 24.1 for 1:46.3

Tom McKean, Nixon Kiprotich and Jens-Peter Herold in the 1989 World Cup

200 in 24.9 for 1:44.94/1:45.03/1:45.09

At 1500

Said Aouita Grosseto 84 300 in 36 for 3:34.81

Sebastian Coe OG 84 400 in 53.0 for 3:32.53

Steve Cram and Jose-Luis Gonzalez in the 1987 European Cup

400 in 49.9 for 3:45.5

Abdi Bile, Sebastian Coe and Jens-Peter Herold in the 1989 World Cup

300 in 37.7/37.8 for 3:35.57/3:35.7

Nourredine Morceli WC91 400 in 51.4 for 3:32.85

Nourredine Morceli WC93 400 in 50.6 for 3:34.23

Cacho's was 50.5 or 50.2?(3:40.12),

Aouita 51.7 (3:29.71),

Ryun 50.6 (3:38.2),

El G 53.1(3:26.00)

At 5000

Juha Vaatainen 1971 Euros in 52.8 for 13:32.5

Said Aouita Oslo 85 400 in 53.9 for 13:00.40WR (pursued by Maree)

Said Aouita WC 87 400 in 52.8 for 13:26.3

Dieter Baumann OG 92 200 in 24.9 for a 13:12.5.

Nourredin Morceli Zurich 17.8.94

400 in 51.93 for 13:03.xx

At 10000

Juha Vaatainen EC 71 400 in 53.8 for 27:52.7

Fita Bayesa Oslo 92 400 in 53.9 for 27:15 (Chelimo 54.8 same race

malmo wrote:

At 1500

Said Aouita Grosseto 84 300 in 36 for 3:34.81

I have this as 36,14. I have never seen this race. I don't believe the time is correct.

The only 50,0 or faster finishes for 1500m which I can remember at the moment:

Gonzalez 1987 in Prague against Cram (3:45,45): around 50,0

Kipchirchir 2006 in Athens (3:52,60): around 49,45

Aouita 1988 in Lisbon (3:49,27): around 49,7

I also have never seen this Aouita race from Lisbon; the time was published in 1988 in the magazin "Spiridon".

Any information about this race (4th June) is highly appreciated!

Gfellas wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2rHmSKqs2w

One of Bekele`s rare losses on his prime. Last lap clocks in 51,94 and Lagat is even a meter or two behind Bekele when the last lap begins. This could be the fastest last lap in a pace under 13 minutes in 5k!

Around 51,8 for Lagat while running both bends on the outside of lane 1, that's more like 51,5 when running close to the curb. Absolutely unique I would say.

deanouk wrote:

No, it was given as 50.6 in T&FN at the time. A friend has seen the race on video and he come up with 50.8. Certainly not under 50.

Cool

It was given as under 50 by several sources that have already been repeated over and over in past threads. I know no one is going to convince you that ryun ran sub 50 for the last lap so i won't bother trying.

Fastest kick? What about 92 Oly 1500? The fastest kick is kinda a bonanza of rhetoric? Anyway if you are into such debate then watch Athletics World Weekly 36 where we delve into such arcane matter. Best track & field and road coverage on tv or the web. see link below.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7spB4XCk_Co&feature=youtu.be

jx.

@ Malmo, Aouita, is one of my favorite runners. He took the 5000 in the Olympics in 84 in Olympic record time. Then in the 88 Oly he attempts to take the 800 & 1500! The 800 breaks him but he still got the bronze! And was ranked #1in the world in 88 at 800m!

How many 5000 guys dropped down to the 800 and had success?? And don't forget the 3:29 close against Cram in 85.

I have seen this list posted several times on here over recent years, on different threads, and while it gives a good overall picture of what is possible, there are many mistakes on this list.

E.g. if Ovett's last 400 in Moscow 800 was 50.8 & Coe's 51.2, then that would mean they were level at the bell, as they finished 0.4 apart at the end. And of course they were not. Coe was at the back of the pack while Ovett was in the middle at 400m. Warren led at bell in 54.55, with Ovett in 54.9 & Coe in 55.2. Meaning Ovett's last 400 was 50.5, and Coe's, running both bends wide in lane 2, was 50.6.

Ovett's last 200 was 25.0 (kirov led at 600 in 1:20.1), certainly not 24.3, and Coe's was 24.9.

There are other mistakes on this list that i know of, but no time to go through them now. It really is best to look at the races oneself, rather than believing what is often written in athletics' books and magazines. Even the IAAF get it wrong in their publications.