Name the last American miler that could handle that pressure of being "The Big Deal". They have all have folded from that attention. The list is long. Liquori at least had injuries at bad times. They always crumble.
Webb was cursed from the start from that 3:53 in high school.
The man is the most talented middle distance runner with the exception of Jim Ryun this country has ever seen.
A couple of thoughts from someone who was there:
1. I don't know why people keep saying he ran these races 40 minutes apart -- they were FOUR HOURS apart.
2. Based on some of the conversation I overheard, it sounded like he was trying to hold goal pace as long as he could, which would explain the massive positive splits. My strong suspicion is that he could have run faster times if he was really going for a time.
3. He seemed more disappointed with the 800 than the 1500. A lot more disappointed. As warm as it was for the 800, it was colder for the 1500, so I don't know if that affected the times.
Evill wrote:
Webb's progression has been consistent with his early career times.
However, it's interesting to see how fast he's fallen post Salazar. And this is the important part - POST SALAZAR.
Post-Warhurst he was like this for years also, happens when you leave a great coach like Warhurst (Diemer -bronze, Willis - silver)/Salazar (Goucher - bronze, Ritz - bronze) for an high school coach or college coach.
Sigh, I thought the thread was about a 3:54 mile. That is a DIII time.
Live From the Florida Relays wrote:
A couple of thoughts from someone who was there:
1. I don't know why people keep saying he ran these races 40 minutes apart -- they were FOUR HOURS apart.
2. Based on some of the conversation I overheard, it sounded like he was trying to hold goal pace as long as he could, which would explain the massive positive splits. My strong suspicion is that he could have run faster times if he was really going for a time.
3. He seemed more disappointed with the 800 than the 1500. A lot more disappointed. As warm as it was for the 800, it was colder for the 1500, so I don't know if that affected the times.
Thanks for the info, but it doesn't really matter. 1:54 and 3:54 are pitiful for a guy who's hoping to make the Olympic team, whether it was a work out or not. If this were some isolated occurrence I wouldn't think much of it. But head-scratchingly slow times have become the norm for Alan Webb over the past few years. Stick a fork in him.
I have been watching this for 15 years, ever since his 9th grade year.
There never was going to be an easy exit from the sport for Webb.
Raczko is a knowledgeable coach. I know that is not a popular sentiment on these boards but in the narrowest of senses, he trains his athletes well. The confidence I observed from Webb as an exuberant 10th grader hopping up and down in the local running shoe store proclaiming 4 minutes was just around the corner was sincere. Raczko played a role in that.
But this wasn't going to end well. Webb is a product of the suburbs, and a reasonably well off one at that. Whatever its shortcomings (and there are a lot), the NCAA system at Michigan would have worked well for Webb. It would have led to NCAA titles, and more importantly, memories of a meaningful college life and a degree to boot. The platform for an exit from the sport down the road would have been set. And the delay in adolescence that is college life would have served him well.
Going pro was good for Raczko, and maybe in the short run good for Webb, too. But it isolated Webb. I saw him way too many times on the roads in Reston, running alone with his head down. Running was his job, and like his coach, he did not finish college and progress in life with his peer group. Yes, he was different because of his outrageous talent, but in the end, not all that different. Too much pressure was put on running. The whole thing never made sense to me. Compare his choices to those of a guy like Bob Kennedy's (who had lots of talent but a fraction of Webb's speed), who led a balanced life, and well, I just never understood them.
By the way, he clearly has been struggling with injury. And he may be at the age where recovery takes quite a bit of time. Throw in the mix that he has some propensity to gain weight when injured, and well, what is happening now is not surprising.
I wish him well, and hope he succeeds in his personal life, including marriage and career. This public meltdown is not easy to see.
LMFAOYou know its a bad race when you can't tell the distance from the time.
T&F Analyst wrote:
Seyta wrote:Even if he's training through this, he should not be running this badly...
3:54 is TWENTY-FOUR SECONDS off his PR...
The WR is 3:43. How is it 24 secs off his PR? Can you please focking tell me that? He's within 8 secs of his own PR. Not bad for April.
A lot of what you write rings true when you see him at something like the Florida Relays. I actually felt bad for him; there's the AR holder sitting alone with some Nike handler at the back of the complex behind the secondary pole vault mats at a B-level track meet, while all the other college kids were there with teammates having a fun time on a beautiful day for running.
rocky ground wrote:
I have been watching this for 15 years, ever since his 9th grade year.
There never was going to be an easy exit from the sport for Webb.
Raczko is a knowledgeable coach. I know that is not a popular sentiment on these boards but in the narrowest of senses, he trains his athletes well. The confidence I observed from Webb as an exuberant 10th grader hopping up and down in the local running shoe store proclaiming 4 minutes was just around the corner was sincere. Raczko played a role in that.
But this wasn't going to end well. Webb is a product of the suburbs, and a reasonably well off one at that. Whatever its shortcomings (and there are a lot), the NCAA system at Michigan would have worked well for Webb. It would have led to NCAA titles, and more importantly, memories of a meaningful college life and a degree to boot. The platform for an exit from the sport down the road would have been set. And the delay in adolescence that is college life would have served him well.
Going pro was good for Raczko, and maybe in the short run good for Webb, too. But it isolated Webb. I saw him way too many times on the roads in Reston, running alone with his head down. Running was his job, and like his coach, he did not finish college and progress in life with his peer group. Yes, he was different because of his outrageous talent, but in the end, not all that different. Too much pressure was put on running. The whole thing never made sense to me. Compare his choices to those of a guy like Bob Kennedy's (who had lots of talent but a fraction of Webb's speed), who led a balanced life, and well, I just never understood them.
By the way, he clearly has been struggling with injury. And he may be at the age where recovery takes quite a bit of time. Throw in the mix that he has some propensity to gain weight when injured, and well, what is happening now is not surprising.
I wish him well, and hope he succeeds in his personal life, including marriage and career. This public meltdown is not easy to see.
Let me ask you all this: if you were Webb, and if you had been clean your entire career and then started dropping performances like these, would you not get yourself checked out thoroughly for mono, mitochondriosis, lyme disease, or whatever?
I would try to find some physiologic explanation if I could, and if I did, I would make it public (unless it was venereal), and possibly medicate in order to heal.
Failing that, I'd train so F-ing hard that I would either succeed, or destroy my body trying.
He doesn't appear to have any training-related injuries right now, so IMHO it is reasonable to conclude either that he has some sort of illness that he doesn't want to talk about, or that he has lost it mentally and doesn't want to or is unable to acknowledge that he should move on with his life, or both.
Too bad, I know he has been a model for other mile-type guys out there.
In any case, he's fighting something internal--and when an athlete is fighting against something within himself rather than fighting against other competitors on the track, he will not win an event that is not based on pure ability.
I'm no miler, but I understand that it can be a very tactical race, with thinking, and team tactics possibly involved. In that environment, there is no way that you can win if you are battling yourself. Total focus needs to be had on the race, not on your own demons.
What types of things has he been talking about post-race? Has he been talking about himself, about his internal state, about his health, about his training, etc., or has he been talking about external things, like getting boxed in, the race dynamics, positioning, elbows, and the home straight?
If he's talking about internal things, the suggestion that he is finished is supported, IMHO.
I have a pretty good idea that he is suffering from what is referred to as overtraining syndrome. This is a medical problem with abnormalities that can be found on lab tests.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1317287/?page=1
Many athletes have periods of overreaching, but overtraining syndrome is one step further, as your body essentially shuts down.
This has nothing to do with him being a headcase, poor tactics, or anything other than him pushing himself too hard. If you look at his career, it seems as if this has happened to him several times before.
The best solution is to take 3-4 weeks completely off, then start to rebuild slowly. He ran 4:08 as a sophomore in high school, I assure you he was not doping then. He is a massive talent and its a shame his coaches don't recognize something this obvious.
Do you have any first-hand knowledge of his actual training volume, intensity, and phasing?
I certainly understand "overtraining syndrome". I once had to do just that--I took a couple of weeks off, and ate tons of read meat and fruit, and came back OK.
Your theory is plausible, and should be added to my list to make 3 good theories--an unsavory and undisclosed illness, mentally lost it, overtrained, or some combination of some of the above.
Is there any actual evidence for any of these?
I second the Achilles surgery, injury trouble related to it, and unlikeliness that he could ever return to the same comfort level in training. An Achilles injury really takes the pep out of your step and training hard for something like the mile becomes difficult. He's expected to run very fast in many repetitions on hard surfaces and in minimal shoes. The Achilles just doesn't handle that well, especially as a person gets older. He simply doesn't have the same elasticity he had as a teenager and it's hard to imagine he'll ever be able to train at the same level he did years ago for the mile.
It's anecdotal, but everyone I've talked to and my own personal experience indicate that he'd be healthier if he found an event where he could reduce the focus on anaerobic intensity. Even just moving from the mile to the 5k would make a much bigger portion of his training simply aerobic.
We now have to look to the supernatural and mind control for Webb's recent performances. There is real bad karma here.
Just so we're all clear, Webb has not been on prescription drugs for any of these problems, because he doesn't have them. Why don't you post your real name so we can all make up things about you, too.
Evill wrote:
What do you think took place? Maybe the regime of prescriptions for various ailments, namely thyroid and asthma 'issues' didn't work for Webb and he is paying the price.
Maybe he is addicted to Ambien like Tiger Woods was. Actually, I don't think Ambien would hurt his performance on the track. If anything it would relax him.
joe9090 wrote:
Maybe he is addicted to Ambien like Tiger Woods was. Actually, I don't think Ambien would hurt his performance on the track. If anything it would relax him.
Yea taking a sedative before running. Thats got to help, right?
You my friend are an idiot.
It just a theory on the slow times, not to be taken seriously. Maybe an energy drink before the race would help.
rocky ground wrote:
I have been watching this for 15 years, ever since his 9th grade year.
There never was going to be an easy exit from the sport for Webb.
Raczko is a knowledgeable coach. I know that is not a popular sentiment on these boards but in the narrowest of senses, he trains his athletes well. The confidence I observed from Webb as an exuberant 10th grader hopping up and down in the local running shoe store proclaiming 4 minutes was just around the corner was sincere. Raczko played a role in that.
But this wasn't going to end well. Webb is a product of the suburbs, and a reasonably well off one at that. Whatever its shortcomings (and there are a lot), the NCAA system at Michigan would have worked well for Webb. It would have led to NCAA titles, and more importantly, memories of a meaningful college life and a degree to boot. The platform for an exit from the sport down the road would have been set. And the delay in adolescence that is college life would have served him well.
Going pro was good for Raczko, and maybe in the short run good for Webb, too. But it isolated Webb. I saw him way too many times on the roads in Reston, running alone with his head down. Running was his job, and like his coach, he did not finish college and progress in life with his peer group. Yes, he was different because of his outrageous talent, but in the end, not all that different. Too much pressure was put on running. The whole thing never made sense to me. Compare his choices to those of a guy like Bob Kennedy's (who had lots of talent but a fraction of Webb's speed), who led a balanced life, and well, I just never understood them.
By the way, he clearly has been struggling with injury. And he may be at the age where recovery takes quite a bit of time. Throw in the mix that he has some propensity to gain weight when injured, and well, what is happening now is not surprising.
I wish him well, and hope he succeeds in his personal life, including marriage and career. This public meltdown is not easy to see.
Sadly, this rings more true than anything I've read or heard.
Post-Warhurst he was like this for years also, happens when you leave a great coach like Warhurst (Diemer -bronze, Willis - silver)/Salazar (Goucher - bronze, Ritz - bronze) for an high school coach or college coach.[/quote]
I agree completely. Webb never should have left Warhurst for his high school coach just because he couldnt handle the workload that Warhurst expected of him. The story of Alan Webb is of someone who has the physical ability to run fast, but has lost the mental edge needed to do so.
I posted about his struggles on my Blog, its a worth a look.