This thread is ten years old. Back then, Subarus were the only AWD station wagon you could find. They were popular with the granola crowd in Colorado and New England so I can see how they would get a reputable of being outside normal.
They were underpowered, burned oil, and got poor gas mileage, but... they could go anywhere in the snow and, I kid you not, you could carry a 10 foot 2x4 inside with the back hatch down. Back then, the only thing that could do that was a 4x4 Suburban that got 14 mph! My Subaru got a whopping 24! Okay... 22, but it got 24 on the highway.
Today, AWDs are everywhere and the Outback looks like every other midsize SUV. Not much to recommend it over other AWD choices.
I have a 2012 Outback. Mostly because on those 3-4 snow days we have a year, I want to be certain that I can go anywhere I want. And it was dirt cheap. I'm not really tied to a brand of car.
I have an Impreza wagon and it is the best car I've ever owned. It is over 10 years old, has been in 3 accidents with 1 being within $500 of being a total loss, and the car is mechanically great, still on really good cosmetic shape, and is bulletproof in the winter.
When the time comes I'll replace it with another Subaru.
I have 2 Subarus. A 2000 Outback with a head gasket leak (still running, townie car, 180k miles) and a 2020 Crosstrek.
Gasket issue in the 2000 Outback aside, both have been very good utilitarian cars for our needs (live in a mountainous snowy area). If I did not live in such an area I'd probably drive a Civic.
I've driven friends' newer AWD/4WD wagons/SUVs (HRV, CRV, Kona, Jeeps etc) and they aren't as good as my 2000 Outback in the snow and on mountains. Yeah it's underpowered but in my opinion and experience, Subaru is the gold standard for all- and rough-terrain wagons and midsize SUVs, still. There is a reason why Subaru is much more popular than those other cars in areas similar to where I live.
Tl;dr Subaru is the best for a niche environment (lots of snow, mountains, etc). If you don't live in such a place, spring for a higher average MPG car.
I have 2 Subarus. A 2000 Outback with a head gasket leak (still running, townie car, 180k miles) and a 2020 Crosstrek.
Gasket issue in the 2000 Outback aside, both have been very good utilitarian cars for our needs (live in a mountainous snowy area). If I did not live in such an area I'd probably drive a Civic.
I've driven friends' newer AWD/4WD wagons/SUVs (HRV, CRV, Kona, Jeeps etc) and they aren't as good as my 2000 Outback in the snow and on mountains. Yeah it's underpowered but in my opinion and experience, Subaru is the gold standard for all- and rough-terrain wagons and midsize SUVs, still. There is a reason why Subaru is much more popular than those other cars in areas similar to where I live.
Tl;dr Subaru is the best for a niche environment (lots of snow, mountains, etc). If you don't live in such a place, spring for a higher average MPG car.
Luckily you just have a headgasket issue. Lotta issues w piston ringlands cracking, etc. Earlier WRXs (pre 05?) Transmissions and transfer cases were trash, heavy rust issues, etc. Buddies newer Crosstrek needed a new engine (under warranty)
In all, Subarus I think are sub-par in quality. One annecdotal test i like is to just open and shut the doors. On a BMW there is very affirmative, positive engagement and you can tell the fitment is 100% correct.
On a Subaru the door is really light, seems somewhat flimsy and you don't get that same feedback.
I guarantee I'd still be driving my '01 Forester if it weren't for being hit by a drunk driver and totaling it my freshman year of college with four people (myself included in the car). Spun out, went over a median, hit at an estimated speed of 97 mph by an F-250. No injuries. Was fine to race my first collegiate 8k two days later.
If it were any other car, someone would have been killed or at least seriously injured. The commercials are true. I refuse to buy any other car than an SUV, but Subbies are astronomical aftermarket, for good reason.
Recap of what people have said, with my little personal bias as a 2008 Outback LL Bean 3.0 owner.:
Who drives Outbacks? Lots of people. There are a lot of vape bros in boosted Imprezas and Foresters. Lots of annoying granola Phish people in them too. Lots of totally regular people in them as well, especially in cold, mountainous areas of the country.
Are they reliable? Their older 4 cylinders are extremely prone to head gasket issues that can brick your car if not taken care of, typically around 100,000 miles. I forget exactly what years have this issue, sometime in the late 90s is when it started I think, and I think they got it sorted out by around 2010. You might spend a couple thousand taking care of this gaskets. The 6 bangers don't really have this issue.
Are they nice? Not as nice as a Mercedes or Lexus. Some of the higher trims are honestly very well put together. No, you won't get all the fancy tricks, but my car's leather is very nice and sturdy, the interior panels aren't too plastic-ey, the wheel's Momo, and the seat heaters work almost too well. Lower trims are fine, very utilitarian.
Do they perform? I mean, the boosted ones can be boosted until the cows come home. Non-boosted 4 cylinders are honestly a tad sluggish. A lot of the six cylinders are fine enough, I have no problem merging onto a highway and it's got just enough juice to make me crack a smile now and then. Offroading, well, you're not going rock crawling anytime soon, but I can take mine up a snowy or muddy seasonal road with confidence.
Recap of what people have said, with my little personal bias as a 2008 Outback LL Bean 3.0 owner.:
Who drives Outbacks? Lots of people. There are a lot of vape bros in boosted Imprezas and Foresters. Lots of annoying granola Phish people in them too. Lots of totally regular people in them as well, especially in cold, mountainous areas of the country.
Are they reliable? Their older 4 cylinders are extremely prone to head gasket issues that can brick your car if not taken care of, typically around 100,000 miles. I forget exactly what years have this issue, sometime in the late 90s is when it started I think, and I think they got it sorted out by around 2010. You might spend a couple thousand taking care of this gaskets. The 6 bangers don't really have this issue.
Are they nice? Not as nice as a Mercedes or Lexus. Some of the higher trims are honestly very well put together. No, you won't get all the fancy tricks, but my car's leather is very nice and sturdy, the interior panels aren't too plastic-ey, the wheel's Momo, and the seat heaters work almost too well. Lower trims are fine, very utilitarian.
Do they perform? I mean, the boosted ones can be boosted until the cows come home. Non-boosted 4 cylinders are honestly a tad sluggish. A lot of the six cylinders are fine enough, I have no problem merging onto a highway and it's got just enough juice to make me crack a smile now and then. Offroading, well, you're not going rock crawling anytime soon, but I can take mine up a snowy or muddy seasonal road with confidence.
They cant really be "boosted" til the cows come home without supporting mods (pistons, transmission, stronger clutch, xfer case, etc) which reveals the inherent weakness in those underlying parts. Stage 1 sure, beyond? Ehh. Also dependent on year and model. Some can take it, some cant.
I guarantee I'd still be driving my '01 Forester if it weren't for being hit by a drunk driver and totaling it my freshman year of college with four people (myself included in the car). Spun out, went over a median, hit at an estimated speed of 97 mph by an F-250. No injuries. Was fine to race my first collegiate 8k two days later.
If it were any other car, someone would have been killed or at least seriously injured. The commercials are true. I refuse to buy any other car than an SUV, but Subbies are astronomical aftermarket, for good reason.
Well anyone using the word Subbies definitely proves OP's position. And the guy with the LL Bean option on his "Subbie", are you still living in the 90's?
I have a 2020 Outback. I needed AWD for trips to CO in the winter and needed a vehicle to haul all of our junk when we go to the beach or camping. CRV and RAV4 offer AWD as an afterthought. Back in 2020, Toyota and Honda were only offering CRV and RAV4 with AWD in pretty much a loaded vehicle that was $6-7k more expensive than the Outback. And the Outback comes with a standard roof rack.
Subarus are not magic vehicles. My Outback has been very reliable with nothing more than scheduled maintenance over 42k miles. But the new touchscreen is a bit wonky and sensors for tires, wiper fluid, etc. have been a little goofy at times. But for the money, it is the best AWD vehicle on the road if you are spending a lot of time going camping, skiing, etc. Otherwise, CRV and RAV4 are probably more reliable and durable vehicles.
Traded my ‘15 Land Rover Discovery Sport for a ‘22 Subaru Forester. I loved the DS and thought about getting another one, but the fuel and maintenance costs made me consider other options. My Forester Touring has all the bells and whistles of my DS for $20K less and has lower fuel and maintenance costs.
I live in the mountains too. Subarus are all-wheel drive family cars available at a much better value than a truck or an Audi. When a luxury car like a Lexus or BMW drive buy it's hard not to think what dopes the drivers are for living in the mountains and owning a car that won't function for several months of the year.
I drive a 428i BMW with x-drive . BC Rockies , you see Subaru and ford broncos in the ditch all the time .
Lexus makes some nice cars. Toyota's luxury brand, so hard to go wrong there.
Kind of like comparing apples to oranges though as Subarus aren't luxury cars. I'm not a car guy, so when I buy a car, I want reliability, function, and safety for a decent price. My 2022 Huyndai Kona AWD (so, not even the cheapest Kona) cost me less than half what your GX460 cost. I'm good with that.
Lexus, Subaru and Hyundai are in different price segments for a reason.
Lexus is premium
Subaru is rock solid
Hyundai is cheap
As always, you get what you pay for.
Subaru build solid cars which last a lot of miles. They have a huge fan base for the outdoorsy types for a reason.
I have not driven Hyundai but the Kia I had as a rental seem to fall apart already after 10,000 miles.
For a car guy, you've something VERY wrong.
The Subaru Crosstrek and the Hyundai Kona are comparable cars in all ways, cost, build quality, reliability, features, safety. Hyundai is the most improved car brand over even just the last 5-10 years. Hyundai's sister company Kia also makes some great cars at affordable prices. Nothing "cheap" about them. NO cars fall apart these days after 10,000 miles. Hyperbole doesn't help your argument.
They cant really be "boosted" til the cows come home without supporting mods (pistons, transmission, stronger clutch, xfer case, etc) which reveals the inherent weakness in those underlying parts. Stage 1 sure, beyond? Ehh. Also dependent on year and model. Some can take it, some cant.
Sure, you're right, I didn't phrase that the best. I just meant, as a platform, there's tons of support, aftermarket parts, and community resources available. I'm not a tuner, I just occasionally read about it and have a few friends a little more into it than me. I know you're better off with an LS or whatever, but if Joe Schmo wants a bit more power, it's pretty achievable without too much work with a turbo 4 Subaru.
Carguy wrote:
Kind of silly to compare Subarus with Mercedes, Lexus or BMW.
Different price class and a very different use.
Not really. I mean, yes, those three brands are all nicer and more expensive across the board, no one would disagree, but there's price and category overlaps in the lower trim models.
Also, use cases? Both Subaru and the above mentioned manufactures make cars for many different use cases. You can go rock crawling in a modded Lexus LX or you can be a total granny and drive an SC 430. You can go rock crawling in a Mercedes G Wagon or you can be a total loser and drive a base model A class—all while thinking it's way better than the cheaper Toyotas and Subarus.
Kind of silly to compare Subarus with Mercedes, Lexus or BMW.
Different price class and a very different use.
Not really. I mean, yes, those three brands are all nicer and more expensive across the board, no one would disagree, but there's price and category overlaps in the lower trim models.
Also, use cases? Both Subaru and the above mentioned manufactures make cars for many different use cases. You can go rock crawling in a modded Lexus LX or you can be a total granny and drive an SC 430. You can go rock crawling in a Mercedes G Wagon or you can be a total loser and drive a base model A class—all while thinking it's way better than the cheaper Toyotas and Subarus.
2021 G 550 SUV Starting at MSRP $131,750
How that that compare to any Subaru?
It doesn't. Subaru customers are not buying Mercedes and Mercedes customers are not buying Subaru.
There is zero overlap of these two brands and their customers.
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