Yes Salazar is coaching all of them but Canova is coaching AlSal in the fine art of taking every advantage ...
Yes Salazar is coaching all of them but Canova is coaching AlSal in the fine art of taking every advantage ...
You totally and utterly miss the points of our posts in this thread.
The point you are missing is that there are many high caliber athletes running now that had mediocre college careers compared to what they ran in high school.
For example, Hall had a mediocre college career based on his performance in highschool, a 4:00 flat mile equivalent.
An individual who runs 4:00 flat in highschool should be able to walk away with multiple NCAA titles. Read some Hall interviews, he would be the first to say that he underperformed in college.
Second, stop comparing Webb to Mo.
That is not what I am trying to get across. Look at what I am trying to say. Webb, like Mo, ran fast in highschool. They then went to college and underperformed due to various issues. Both athletes then graduated and began to run extremely fast.
Your lack of comprehension is truly astounding.
Second, stop comparing Webb's times to Mo's.*
douchebags R us wrote:
it is rather impressive for him to have made sucha strong jump AFTER YEARS OF NO PROGRESSION. THAT is what is raising red flags for ppl. Non-linear progressions are nearly always suspect, therefore mo will have to deal with the stigma of being suspect, like it or not.
2010 12:55.53 Stockholm 06/08/2010
2009 13:18.41 Walnut, CA 17/04/2009
2008 13:18.51 Heusden-Zolder 20/07/2008
2007 13:12.24 Heusden-Zolder 28/07/2007
2006 13:27.94
Well, it is obvious that you think Solinsky's progression is suspect, also. I guess you may as well decide that anybody who doesn't fit some cookie cutter pattern of improvement that comports with your expectations is presumably cheating, or is at least raising enough red flags for you to accuse them of such.
So it took Solinsky 3 years to drop 15 seconds from his pr. Mo Trafeh dropped several minutes off his times in less than 2 years. A guy who never broke 14 minutes for a 5k in college will always draw suspicions, when after years of mediocrity, is suddenly a top performer at various US championships. If Rupp were to break the 10k WR in 2 years, is it safe to assume you won't be questioning that performance then?
and I agreed that Hall underperformed BUT, he did run 13:15, which is what you might expect from a kid who runs 4flat.
I am missing NOTHING b/c you are trying to equate a 3:42/FL runnerup to a kid who barely broke 30min, barely broke 14:30, 3:50, etc. 3:42 equates to 13:45/28:45, so quit trying to make them equal. they're not the same, and they NEVER will be! therefore, your point fall flat on it's face.
"stop comparing webb..." again, WTF???? you, in your 4th post on this thread, referenced webb. so why dont YOU stop. dumb@$$
finally, for the guy insinuating solinsky. hey, he could very well be dirty when he ran those crazy times. BUT, he had a 13:12 in there (which we all know should have been a 13:0x without that brutal lockup in the last lap). Trafeh, to the best of my knowledge, has never broken 14 or 29 on the track. I sure hope he has, someone correct me if i'm wrong but, even if he has, it certainly hasn't been by any significant margin, i'll bet my years pay on that. Mo's 1/2 in nyc translates to 27:15/sub13 on the track, which is a HUGE disparity between what his previous pr's were/are. solinsky/hall/webb all made much SMALLER jumps between their pb's.
ok, i'm done posting on this b/c several of you morons are incapable or unwilling to see the fact that trafeh has made improvements that are exponentially better than anyone else in this country, and you can't see the red flag that is continually slapping you in the face.
OK, Mo Trafeh is DIRTY because he has improved in a manner which is not palatable for you. He should be DQ'd from competing in the Trials. He has committed the cardinal sin of not improving in the requisite manner. GUILTY as charged. Hang him.
At this point I think it's obvious to see that this guy has an axe to grind.
TLW wrote:
At this point I think it's obvious to see that this guy has an axe to grind.
Yeah, and he seems to be like Lizzie Borden with that axe in pursuit of Mo Trafeh.
ok, honest, last one. then you have at it with your multiple screen names in support of MT.
neither you, nor your other pseudonym (TLW) have given ONE single example of someone who has done what trafeh has done. solinsky=fail, hall=fail, ritz=fail, webb=epic fail.
not one single person in this 6page thread has given an example of another athlete who went from 14+ and 29+ to sub13 and 27:15ish (as those are the equivalents of mo's 1/2 marathon in nyc- which was only a week removed from a record setting performance in winning gate river) in merely a years time. heck, i'll take an example of someone who did it in 5 years time. fact is, you can't find one, b/c there isn't one....oh, except for Cathal Lombard. but you prob don't want to use that example. so keep trying to explain how MT is the only person in history who has been able to find this great of an improvement in such a short time. laters!
douchebags R us wrote:
ok, honest, last one. then you have at it with your multiple screen names in support of MT.
neither you, nor your other pseudonym (TLW) have given ONE single example of someone who has done what trafeh has done. solinsky=fail, hall=fail, ritz=fail, webb=epic fail.
not one single person in this 6page thread has given an example of another athlete who went from 14+ and 29+ to sub13 and 27:15ish (as those are the equivalents of mo's 1/2 marathon in nyc- which was only a week removed from a record setting performance in winning gate river) in merely a years time. heck, i'll take an example of someone who did it in 5 years time. fact is, you can't find one, b/c there isn't one....oh, except for Cathal Lombard. but you prob don't want to use that example. so keep trying to explain how MT is the only person in history who has been able to find this great of an improvement in such a short time. laters!
You really are reaching here. Mo has not run sub 13 or even the equivalent of it. Mark Curp went from being a Div II runner with bests of 14:02 and 29:14 to being able to run a 1:00:55, which is not far off Trafeh's best time of 1:00:39. You don't know much about the sport, that I can tell, and you're the proud possessor of an extremely narrow mind.
Jesse and I are not the same person. Wejo can even check our IPs and confirm that.
Bill Rodgers was another who was mediocre in college and reached great post collegiate heights in a relatively short time
wejo wrote:
We've always said we will allow doping discussions on LetsRun.com because we believe allowing the discussion makes the sport cleaner.
And how do threads equating blacks to animals help the sport?
the guy isn't saying that he actually broke 13, he very clearly said that trafeh's half time was the equivalent. Mercier lists it as 13:02 and 27:23, but i guess if you take the hills into account, maybe that's how he's fudging the times downward. funny there's another thread about curp right now. curp is a good example but the only one i can think of. the guys right, it's pretty remarkable to have done what trafeh did, curp notwithstanding. should be interesting to see if trafeh has figured out the nutrition part by the trials. totally different animal to do well at half versus full.
TLW, et al.: it does not add credibility to be so kneejerk defensive of an athlete who very easily could be doping. i have no idea if mo actually is cheating. i have no idea if hall or ritz or rupp is cheating either. the way to add credibility is for mo to take more drug tests. more out of competition drug tests and more total drug tests spread throughout the year. we also need better testing. the same goes for other top performers.
so many star athletes have been busted that we as observers are justified in our skepticism. it's unfortunate for the clean athletes that they have to do more to regain our trust. that, however, is the nature of the beast. the cheats tainted our view, and now star athletes face skepticism. especially when your circumstances are unusual - training abroad, big improvements (like solinsky or mo).
when you are so fervently defensive it makes viewers like me more skeptical. what reason do we have to believe that mo is clean. if and when he goes through a year with significant in and out of competition testing and still performs at the same top level, i will have a lot more trust and confidence. until then, i have skepticism that is more than justified by exposed cheats in this sport and others.
beached wrote:
Yes Salazar is coaching all of them but Canova is coaching AlSal in the fine art of taking every advantage ...
HA! :)
An Archy wrote:
. . . as if it isn't easy to dope in country anyway - how often did Lance test positive? . . .
It doesn't negate your main point, but Lance was based in Girona Spain during the bulk of his TDF build up periods.
douglas burke wrote:
Kevin In Cal wrote:Didn't Catherine ndereba ran Zhuhai?
yes she got 2nd in 1:11.59
actually ndereba was 3rd
1. gladys cherono 70:43
2. tedelech bekele 71:44
3. catherine ndereba 71:59
Citizen Runner wrote:
An Archy wrote:. . . as if it isn't easy to dope in country anyway - how often did Lance test positive? . . .
It doesn't negate your main point, but Lance was based in Girona Spain during the bulk of his TDF build up periods.
True, but he was IIRC still subject to random doping tests. He actually got in trouble at one point for seeming to dodge an unannounced test.
The advantage of training in Morocco would be that they at one point had an organized doping program. The point wouldn't be to avoid tests, since peeing clean is apparently so easy. However, any group with a doctor would be able to dope with EPO or just blood transfusions. It's not a complicated or obscure drug. There's no need to travel around the world, so I don't find Mo any more suspicious than other athletes.