what i want to know is how does this guy have the time and $ to race nearly every weekend, train, travel a ton, spend time with his family, AND hold down a full-time job. something has to give!
he either has a lot of money; doesn't really work full-time; or neglects his kids - because his running doesn't seem to suffer.
You sir, are delusional. It hurts no one to have a talent come into town to win. As a high school kid running local road races, it was always INSPIRING to have people from out of the area come to town and dominate. Sour grapes is a little bit of an understatement. Shut the F&^$ up and let the adults have a conversation.
[quote]common wrote:
The thing he does that bothers me is the prolific racing at small events far away from where he lives. To put it indelicately, he's a road whore.
It seems like Wardian has recently focused more on the national and international ultras in recent years, and less on small-field U.S. road races.
One criticism of Wardian that I've seen a lot over the years is that he doesn't seek out competitive fields because he holds effort in reserve when he races. [quote]
1. Do you think Wardian earns more money than he spends to do all of his races? I'm betting he ends up well in the hole in order to do what he loves to do: race anywhere, anytime, any place.
2. Wardian races the most competitive ultras that there are: Comrades and WC 100Km. Furthermore, he is more than willing to take on the best trail ultra guys on their turf (WS 100, White River, Miwok 100 km, UROC) and get beat pretty soundly. The evidence hardly suggests that he avoids competition.
3. Don't good runners who race only 2 or 3 times a year hurt their local running scene and economy by not racing more?
Think, just a little bit, please
ultraultra wrote:
he either has a lot of money; doesn't really work full-time; or neglects his kids - because his running doesn't seem to suffer.
Or... he gets up wicked early and puts in the miles. He does work full time, and he races on the weekends. I used to see him running with a stroller a ton, too, although his kids are probably too old for that now.
This thread is hilarious. That "common" dude should have bailed after about his 3rd post. I think he spent more time on a couple of those posts than Wardian spent training today!!
I was sitting out this thread because there's not a whole lot constructive going on here, but it really, truly bothers me when people make attack the integrity of others who they do not know. I do know Mr. Wardian. As a single guy and slowish runner a couple years younger than he is, I admire him more for the husband and father that he is than for the runner that he is. Here it is 1 AM and I'm wasting time on Letsrun, while I'm sure Mike is sleeping like any intelligent guy with his priorities in order. And if today is a typical day, he will have run somewhere between 10 and 20 miles, made breakfast for his kids, and watched cartoons with them for a while before I hit the snooze bar on my alarm clock for about the third time.
ultraultra wrote:
what i want to know is how does this guy have the time and $ to race nearly every weekend, train, travel a ton, spend time with his family, AND hold down a full-time job. something has to give!
he either has a lot of money; doesn't really work full-time; or neglects his kids - because his running doesn't seem to suffer.
ultraultra wrote:
what i want to know is how does this guy have the time and $ to race nearly every weekend, train, travel a ton, spend time with his family, AND hold down a full-time job. something has to give!
he either has a lot of money; doesn't really work full-time; or neglects his kids - because his running doesn't seem to suffer.
You don't read much... it's all out there in multiple articles and interviews.
Someone's been smokin' the doobie...
common wrote:
[quote]herd wrote:
YOU SHUT YER MOUTH WHEN YOU'RE TALKIN' TO ME HURRRR DURRRR!! THE HIVE MIND OF LETSRUN WILL TELL YOU WHAT TO THINK UNTIL YOU'VE GIVEN UP OR ASSIMILATED. WE LOVE MIKE WARDIAN BUT WE HATE RYAN HALL BUT WE LOVE RACISM AND WE HATE WOMEN AND WE LOVE HYPOCRISY.
Dear Apostrophe Crimes,
I love's you.
Common, it's just as ridiculous when people complain about Kenyans cherry picking races. If a race has prize money it's fair game for anyone who wants to come along. If an RD chooses to pay some guy's way, IMHO it's a mistake, but it's his own decision. Of course a professional runner is going try and make as much money as he can.
common wrote:
I've associated him with all of the other opportunistic road racers because, well, he races a $hit ton of races every year that offer prize money. That's the definition of "road whore" whether you're comfortable with the label or not.
So, here are the facts:
1. Most decent size "local" races offer some form of prize money.
2. Wardian likes to race. He doesn't have enough races in his own backyard (literally), so he travels to local and non-local interesting places to race.
3. He is fast enough that sometimes he wins.
Thus, he is a road whore?
What is the solution here? You're basically saying he should not race? It would be impossible to race as often as he likes to race and avoid prize money, as any decent race has at least a little bit of prize money.
Or, should he only race at races where he knows he will not win? Should everybody follow this rule? Are there even enough races in the US every year for a 2:25 guy to run 10+ marathons and not win any of them? Not to mention, how fun it is, really, to run circus races like Chicago?
The biggest problem with your argument is that you are complaining about a "problem" that doesn't even have an alternative solution.
I see that Michael did chime in on this thread already (to "protect" himself in a way?). Does anyone know where?
Some of you people are infuriating. I've tried to steer this discussion away from criticism of Michael Wardian specifically several times, and some Johnny-come-lately to the thread picks up something from page one, and starts the $hitstorm all over again. READ THE FVCKING THREAD. If you can't bother to read the thread and catch up, don't bother to post a reply.
I know it's hard for you black and white types to pick up the nuance between respecting someone as a person as well as their abilities and talents, but disagreeing with things that they do. Please make an effort to understand that it's possible to dislike a likeable person and still respect and support them. Let's Run does it for Ryan Hall, I do it for prolific road racers, the BroJos do it for each other, etc.
And, really, an engineer complaining that a problem has no solution? What is it you get paid for again?
view from above wrote:
This thread is hilarious. That "common" dude should have bailed after about his 3rd post. I think he spent more time on a couple of those posts than Wardian spent training today!!
I think it would be perfect if this was the post that Wardian chimed in with.
Common - I would like to hear you address my point about comparing this to the "American Only" issue. Taking away the money that gets Wardians and others to go out and race alot could also be seen as taking away the motivation for the best locals to ever try to move to the next level.
Kevin 52,First of all, I don't believe everything I read in articles and interviews...I read the Running Times article on working class runners and when Wardian stated his goal is to run 2:13 at the trials - well, even he knows that is total bs. The guy ran over 2:30 at the last trials but of course he always has an "excuse" for running another race the previous weekend. In the recent USATF article he states that he cares about the competition and that he seeks that in races (again bs). When he runs real competitive races like NYC, Boston and the marathon trials he gets smoked.I'm sure he is a great guy and loves the sport and what he does to inspire working class runners is a positive influence. Aside from that and what I stated above could you imagine how expensive it would be to fly out to a races across the country (and the world) every weekend?
Kevin52 wrote:
ultraultra wrote:what i want to know is how does this guy have the time and $ to race nearly every weekend, train, travel a ton, spend time with his family, AND hold down a full-time job. something has to give!
he either has a lot of money; doesn't really work full-time; or neglects his kids - because his running doesn't seem to suffer.
You don't read much... it's all out there in multiple articles and interviews.
Was baby stroller empty?? Void of Child?
VF Runner wrote:
Common - I would like to hear you address my point about comparing this to the "American Only" issue. Taking away the money that gets Wardians and others to go out and race alot could also be seen as taking away the motivation for the best locals to ever try to move to the next level.
Well, my experience has been that removing the prize money completely, or reducing it for the top 3 and spreading it to the top 10 has the effect of incentivizing development locally, while discouraging what I consider "gaming" the system by prolific racers.
What happened with American only prize money was just a variation on what I'm arguing against. Instead of prize money going to Kenyans, it was going to 10-12, 2:12-2:20 Americans. I don't think it developed American marathoning to be giving the prize money to a small group of athletes who were already sponsored. THe athletes that needed those funds were losing them to the Kenyans, and with American only money, now they were losing the same funds to other Americans.
Today, you have a small number of athletes getting subsidized by a sponsor, getting flown to races across the country, winning prize money that would otherwise stay in the community or local region that the winner otherwise would come from, and leaving the area. Those funds and media attention don't stay in the community, and it is to the detriment of the event and the local running community.
It's no different than Wal-Mart coming in and undercutting local retailers. Prolific sub-elite runners are the Wal-Mart of American road racing.
Speaking of nuance, I think your objection to "road whoring" by non-locals would have been better received had you not injected it into a thread dealing with this particular runner winning this particular national championship race (albeit a minor one). Numerous posts have reasonably argued that Wardian doesn't fit your definition of a "road whore" in that chasing prize money doesn't reasonably seem to be his objective. Further the concept of stealing glory (money (exposure)) from the locals in a national event doesn't make any sense.
Fair point. It was never my intention to make this a thread about road whoring. I made an unnecessary, offhand comment about not being a particular "fan" of MW while praising him for his effort, and, Let's Run being what it is, nearly everyone seized on that comment and, ironically, turned the conversation 180 degrees from what they all ostensibly want, which is for everyone to love everything that MW does.
better than socks wrote:
Just so you know....ultrarunners tend to avoid races that are USATF "Championship" races. Most good ultra guys never race them. The USATF is a joke and for track nerds. Good for Wardian but he did not race anyone super legit.
He ran in the last Olympic Trials and has qualified for the upcoming trials in he marathon.
I am sure he will be there.
In his 2:17 this year, a handful of guys ran 2:12. That seems to be legit competition.
And he did that at age 37 while running several marathons a year plus ultras and 5K's.