Jeilan and farah last 400 split?

Bump.

Thanks for taking the time to answer this query of mine.

Bump. Just making sure.

I always thought you were just born with fast twitch muscle fibres.

Ear wrote:

I always thought you were just born with fast twitch muscle fibres.

He asked whether long distance training will develop fast twitch muscles as well. Your statement is irrelevant to his question.

Renato Canova wrote:

About the final speed, you must work for increasing the ability of the athlete to recruit the higher percentage of fast fibers in condition of lactic saturation (so, nothing to do with the personal max speed).

For example, when in 2009 we prepared James Kwalia for the last lap in 5000m (he won bronze medal in Berlin), one of the training in St. Moritz was one lap of the lake (4270m) at 2'55" pace followed by 5 times 200m uphill very fast in order to move from an aerobic effort to a stimulation of the lactic system, repeating 3 times this type of training. In Berlin, Kwalia (not able running faster than 51" in 400m) was the fastest athlete in the last lap (52"8, faster than Bekele and Bernard Lagat), and didn't win a better medal only because was still in 7th position at the bell, well behind Kenenisa and Bernie.

Great post. QFE and discussion.

With a better coach, he might have been in a better position with one lap to go.

NY SCHOOLS wrote:

malmo wrote:

You know absolutely NOTHING about about world class distance running. I can think of any top 10k runners who could break 48s for 400, and you could probably count the number under 50s on one hand.

Maybe because you are not a world class runner.

I think you're on some thin ice right now, NY.

I wasn't carried away, you seem to have missed the essential point.

I do not dispute that Geb and Bekele have finished as fast/faster over the last lap. Nor do I dispute that they have exhibited excellent form over that last lap. Nor do I dispute that their form approximates actual sprinting.

But not to the extent to which Jeilan's form did. Actual sprinting form is disadvantageous over 400m, so it stands to reason that guys like Geb and Bekele could actually have superior time over the last 400m, but that's not the point.

The point is how real sprint form enables bursts of acceleration, and sustained top speed for distances shorter than 50m. This is visible in Jeilan's last lap at those 15-second intervals, when he held off on using that ability. He finally decided to use it at the appropriate time, at which point there was NO WAY that Farah was going to win the race.

I would even venture to guess that if Jeilan were even with a healthy Geb and Bekele with 80m to go, Jeilan would have won, because he is the only one who has exhibited the type of form that neither of the other two could match--and it is that form that enables that burst of acceleration and sustained top speed over, say, maybe 30-40m.

That's obviously talking out my azz. Ultimately, I think that Jeilan could beat them in a flat-out 150m race if he was able to sustain that kind of form, if not at least be equal with them. And that is, I think, a very high compliment.

Again, it was Jeilan's FORM that was unprecedented in my viewing experience, not his "speed over the last lap".

Renato was talking about some sub-27 runners(26:35-27:00) who could run no faster for a 400m all out than 53.5-54. As for your personal times, your 400 meter speed is faster than many sub-1:43 guys are or was(such as Symmonds and Cram) and even a few medalists at WCHS or Olympics in 800m(Kenah), your 100 speed is probably as fast if not faster than Rudisha can run it in, your 200 is probably about the speed Rudisha can run a 200m in...

Obviously though he'd destroy you at 400 meters, which by the way your speed starts to show a decay(This is why you are not world class, because of your endurance). What you have to understand is for DISTANCE EVENTS, THESE GUYS ARE WORLD CLASS BECAUSE OF SPECTACULAR ENDURANCE, NOT SPECTACULAR SPEED. You would kill Bekele or Geb at 400 meters I bet you all the money I own(or you would have), you could probably beat some extreme distance guys with an equal 10k pr to you by 10 seconds in a 400...

What you have to understand it is not possible to be as fast as you were over 100-200 and still be an ELITE 5-10K runner(and your times are good, not anywhere near elite though), even someone having your 400 meter speed is a stretch, I've never heard of a sub-13 or sub-27 guy with faster than 49-49.5 speed. You have to understand that to be as fast as these guys are over the longer distances, they have to be very specialized(READ: NOT GREAT SPEED, GREAT ENDURANCE) and they can kick well off of great endurance also, not great speed-although basic speed does play a little part in the end result of a race.

No way could a 1500-meter or up guy be able to run faster than 10.6 and still be world class, no way... So as I'm getting at, I doubt these guys could run faster than 48. Most are in the low 50s(50.-53.) for 5 and 10k runners, and for 1500 runners would be(47.-50.). Coe would probably be the only 46. runner that has run sub-3:30 in a 1500m(and it shows in his 800m time).

^Just read the whole thread, and it seems my post above perfectly reflects what Canova was saying. It is not possible to be very very fast over 100-400m, and still be at or near world class in the 5 and 10k. Not possible.