impressed.... wrote:
She did change coaches
Why did she change coaches?
impressed.... wrote:
She did change coaches
Why did she change coaches?
A post-Millrose interview with Cain. http://ny.milesplit.com/meets/103013/videos?id=21986
Mary Cain is having a great indoor so far. She set a NY state record in the 1000m that is also #6 all-time. She also has a 4:29 1500m a 4:48 mile and a 9:47 3000m. This is all after a stellar XC season where she finished 6th at NXN nationals and ran an unreal 17:40 #3 AT on a very tough Bowdoin park course! She has lost a few races indoors but that is not a big deal at this point. A young runner can learn a whole lot from taking some loses. Mary has a ton of big races left in her and she will win most of them. She is a very intelligent kid and as she matures she will grow from the runner to the racer. Treat every race as a learning experience, win or lose!
Joe Garland wrote:
A post-Millrose interview with Cain.
http://ny.milesplit.com/meets/103013/videos?id=21986
That was an odd interview. I had heard about the switch in coaches, does anyone know the story there? Mitch is a class act, I also like the boy's coaches at Bronxville who she mentioned, but I have to imagine that there was some drama involved. Is she not going to run relays with the team? It doesn't really make any sense.
Does anyone have the video of the race, I could not find it on YouTube or Armory site. Mary is obviously an enormous talent but it looks like she got smoked in that race, I don't understand what she is talking about.
I thought the post Millrose interview was a little odd myself. Why would he bring up young runners running fast and then not being able to sustain that? He then asked Mary if she was worried about it. Good answer by Mary who said "I stay in the moment". Still, to ask a 15 yr old runner a question like that just because she lost a race is a little mean spirited on the interviewers part. Anyway about the race, Mary moved to the front after a few laps and then had a tough time responding as a big pack went by her and boxed her. It was an off night for her and she was unable to make a move at Nadel after that. You learn from it and move on. Jenny Simpson looked horrible in her race in Boston the week before Millrose but looked like the best 1500 runner in the world in NYC by throwing down a world leader. Anyone at any level can have a bad day. Have no fear! Mary is going to be just fine!
...Not at Millrose, but at outdoor states last year. I still cannot believe I got to witness a freshman run 4:17.
As the previous poster mentioned "You learn from it and move on"...
Comparing Cain to Decker - Decker seemed to time trial every race as nobody in the US could come close to her. I always thought that the lack of competition hurt her when she WAS is a pack. Nice that Cain is learning to run with competition - it will only make her better
John C wrote:
I thought the post Millrose interview was a little odd myself. Why would he bring up young runners running fast and then not being able to sustain that? He then asked Mary if she was worried about it. Good answer by Mary who said "I stay in the moment". Still, to ask a 15 yr old runner a question like that just because she lost a race is a little mean spirited on the interviewers part. Anyway about the race, Mary moved to the front after a few laps and then had a tough time responding as a big pack went by her and boxed her. It was an off night for her and she was unable to make a move at Nadel after that. You learn from it and move on. Jenny Simpson looked horrible in her race in Boston the week before Millrose but looked like the best 1500 runner in the world in NYC by throwing down a world leader. Anyone at any level can have a bad day. Have no fear! Mary is going to be just fine!
I agree with you about the interviewer. I found him brash and extremely unprofessional. All of his interviews were awkward. He didn't seem to be very knowledgeable about the sport of track and field. I would be offended if he asked me that question about "not being able to sustain it". In addition, he asked Ajee Wilson some rather unintelligent questions. For instance, why did this race go better than last week? Well, any track fan with just the least bit of knowledge would know that Ajee would run faster off of a slower pace - they went through the 400 in Boston in 58 and 600 in 1:30 (too fast) whereas at Millrose they went through 400 in 62 and 600 in 1:33 (perfect). Duhhhh, of course she ran faster because the NY race was right at her level - why interview these kids at all if you are just going to babble about nothing?
John C wrote:
I thought the post Millrose interview was a little odd myself. Why would he bring up young runners running fast and then not being able to sustain that? He then asked Mary if she was worried about it. Good answer by Mary who said "I stay in the moment". Still, to ask a 15 yr old runner a question like that just because she lost a race is a little mean spirited on the interviewers part. Anyway about the race, Mary moved to the front after a few laps and then had a tough time responding as a big pack went by her and boxed her. It was an off night for her and she was unable to make a move at Nadel after that. You learn from it and move on. Jenny Simpson looked horrible in her race in Boston the week before Millrose but looked like the best 1500 runner in the world in NYC by throwing down a world leader. Anyone at any level can have a bad day. Have no fear! Mary is going to be just fine!
The issue of flame-outs is a common one among high schoolers. It came up yesterday in another thread that mentioned Cain and others, about Ajee Wilson and the 800. And the question was not, "You've lost the race, are you through" it was "You're Mary Cain, a phenom, but does the record of previous phenoms concern you?" She handled it well. (And Wilson was simply asked to compare her various races.) Just because she's a sophomore doesn't make questions to her or comments about her "mean-spirited". (And note that hers is the only interview of a non-winner.)
She's smart and analytical about her races and will benefit from her experience running in packs in a way she didn't have to for much of Spring 2011. That's one of the benefits of running indoors on small tracks. Particularly given the way she ran that 4:17 -- I think there's a link to the video on this thread -- leading the whole way, indoors is a good way to experience what can be rough-and-tumble pack racing (as Pre learned when he went to Europe for the first time).
When comparing H.S. female phenoms, Gallagher is a better standard to use because she actually ran for a H.S. team and ran regular H.S. meets. Gallagher is also a better comparision because she ran relays, tripled at most meets, it was rare for her double and I can only recall 2 occassions where she ran one event at a meet. Kim's individual accomplishments are well known, but her H.S. also won state championships, Penn Relays COAs; Kim's H.S. career was much like Alan Webb's.
With out a doubt, Decker was an absolutely incredible talent, but when she was Mary Cain's age, she did not have to focus on running relays and/or scoring points for a team, she was able to pick and choose her meets and was always focused on running fast.
TrackCoach wrote:
With out a doubt, Decker was an absolutely incredible talent, but when she was Mary Cain's age, she did not have to focus on running relays and/or scoring points for a team, she was able to pick and choose her meets and was always focused on running fast.
Very well said coach.
Funny you say that because my wife ran 2:07 for 800m and 4:16 for 1500 in her sophomore year of HS and was never able to run faster than that in college. She is not from the USA, by the way.
TrackCoach wrote:
MaryMary wrote:Same goes for you too TrackCoach. Stop looking at other athletes entire high school careers and compare just their freshman year to Mary Cain's. Yes she has another 3 years in high school but her freshman year alone propels her among the greatest female high schoolers as far as TALENT!
Who besides Mary Decker and Kim Gallagher could/have run 2:03.7 800m relay leg and 4:17 open 1500m as a freshman?
Hold your horses!
I have nothing but praise for Mary Cain, her performances have been incredible in a number of ways and I have nothing to suggest she will not continue to perform well in the future. I simply took exception to your use of word "greatest" and offered some historical perspective and also pointed out that you simply can't go by time. If that was the only measuring stick then Bill Rodgers would not be ranked even in the top-10 among the U.S. marathoners and Alan Webb would be a better high school miler than Jim Ryun, which very few people would agree with.
Also, as some people have pointed out, when it comes to girls, it is hard to focus on just one year, you almost have to look at their body of work for their entire H.S. stay. Jordan Hasay's wining FLNC as a freshman is as about as impressive as it gets. Mary Decker at age 12, in one week she completed a marathon and four middle- and long-distance races. (Wikipedia). She could have made the U.S Olympic team at age 14, but she was too young and at Mary Cain's age, Decker was competing in international competitions. At age 14 Kim Gallagher won a state XC title that included several of nations top runners, probably would have won the national title if there was one and age 14 Kim held the class and age group record for every event she competed in. Notwithstanding the success these ladies had beyond at age 14, which as I said, with girls you never discount. Their achievements at around Mary Cain’s age was absolutely incredible.
One of the reasons why you just on one year is because 800m can be in particularly cruel to young girl as they mature. For example: I watched Devon Williams run a 2:06i 800m at around Mary's age and I don't know if she ever ran much faster than that even in college. Robin Campbell ran a 2:02x 800m at around Mary's age and she never ran faster than that in H.S. Laura Roesler ran a low 2:03 800m at around Mary's age and that might still be her PR even in college. Raven Rogers ran 2:06x 800m at age 13 and now at age 16, I don't think she come close to that time. Meredith Rainey ran a 2:10x 800m at age 13 and I don’t think she faster than that until college. Obviously there are extenuating circumstances for some of these girls, but hopefully you get the point. - Btw, I don't think anyone’s intentions is to take anything away from Mary Cain, but the people who are the greatest were almost a freak of nature good, I would almost put Mary Cain in that category, but you definitely can’t say she is the best of the best.
I think it's important to note Cain's history in indoors versus outdoors.
Last year, she had a great indoor season, running well in the 1000 at NY States and the 800 at Nationals. However, she was not unbeatable, did not record "phenom" times, and did not win those races.
It was outdoors (April/May) that she started coming on strong and posting the most impressive marks (9:28, 4:17, and 2:03 split). I think we'll see a similar progression this year.
It is a little concerning that she changed coaches (to the poster who asked, there is an article about it somewhere on here), but the boys coaches seem equally intelligent in training her and a plus is she gets to train with the boys team.
I think we'll see great things from her.
You can't take anything away from someone running as fast as Mary Cain, but she is like a Jorday Hasay with more speed, but less endurance. Just to be mentioned in the same category as Jordan is special, but Decker and Gallagher stand along in a completely seperate category. Gallagher could have won 4 cross country national titles if she wanted to and in her senior year she was the anchor leg on the nation's best 4x4, 4x8 and DMR and at one point her relay team held the national record for the 4x8 and/or the DMR. Kim Gallagher is regarded as America's greatest H.S. t&f athlete male or female. Mary Decker under simular circumstances probably could have accomplished everything Kim did had she ran for her H.S. Btw, Decker had Gallagher were not just speed, they both had very good endurance and with a doubt could run faster times in the mile and 2-mile than they did.
With all that said, Decker and Gallagher ran the majority of their races on dirt tracks, at a lot of meets, the longest event girls could enter was the 880 and most important Decker and Gallagher still hold H.S. records to this day...they ran those times when Mary Cain's parents were perhaps in middle school. When Mary Decker ran her 2:01 indoor 800, she was only only a second off of the world record and no H.S athlete has come with 4 seconds of that time. When Gallagher ran her 2 minute 800, it was faster than the fastest NCAA time and to this day, it would be among the fastest times by an NCAA athlete. If you make an adjustment for the passage of time, Decker and Gallagher's accomplishments would be absolutely off the charts, freak of nature type stuff.
Just wanted to add some perpective to 'greatest'.
O.K. but Cain would have to break an AR like Orange HS's (Orange CA) Mary Decker did before people would recognize her.
i think jim ryan had just a slightly better high school career than gallagher. remind me which world record she set in high school?
they didn't test for dope in those days so records then are ignored
let her mature before we say she is any good, what's Ashley Brasovan ran lately?
Sorry she is NO Mary Decker
Apples and oranges. Brasovan was a tiny high school waif. Waifs historically don't do well in college.
Vcruz, Jim Ryun did not set a world record in HS. He did beat the Olympic Champ in a mile but no world record.