Questions about Summer of Malmo

First of all, I do not believe that there are 'scads' of people running themselves reckless. Even if there were, why on Earth would I be frustrated? I don't know who they are, and what they do or don't do in the Summers doesn't impact me at all.

I think that most runners tend to undertrain during the Summer. Those who do train in the Summer, I belive there's a strong feeling that training needs to be difficult in order to get results. In the Summer, especially, it doesn't.

SOM came about at Letsrun's predecessor -- John Schiefers TrackandFieldmedia.com message board -- about 12-13 years ago. Like here, every Spring young runners talked about designing the perfect Summer plan to get them ready for next years XC season. It was a lot of "do this, or that, or this other thing...blah...blah blah"

I finally stepped in and said that I have the perfect program that's all things to all runners. Basically it blended some of my thoughts as to what I'd do in the Summer if I could do it over, plus what I actually did one Summer in 1989.

For a couple of months I kept procrastinating writing it, and it pretty much became a running joke whether or not I actually had this top secret training program. Finally one evening, with the 'Summer of George' episode of Seinfeld in the background I put it all together.

That's how I 'invented' SOM.

As you say, every year young runners gets hyped up about what they are going to do to get in shape to “dominate” next season.

Once the summer comes, however, it is hard to keep teenage guys from being distracted. One missed day turns into 2 or 3 missed days each week. “Cross training” amounts to riding your bike around the neighborhood or laying by the pool.

How do you get kids to stick to SOM, specifically the guys that are not top tier / self motivated types?

I assume that this is basic knowledge for good HS / college coaches, but I am not a coach - just a parent of an “undermotivated” teen.

SomeCoach wrote:

I disagree; anytime you look at an athletes log there are going to be questions so that intent is clarified. In looking at the progressions of each type of workout, it's easy to see what Coach Groves was trying to accomplish. When you comment about maybe racing less, I was trying to to understand why you thought that was imporant.

a) A need to ADD specific work or

b) addition by subtraction.

Again, you're thinking too much.

I never said anything about thinking it was important, I only mentioned that, in retrospect, my preference would have been to race 2-3 fewer times.

Lets actually run wrote:

How do you get kids to stick to SOM, specifically the guys that are not top tier / self motivated types?

I assume that this is basic knowledge for good HS / college coaches, but I am not a coach - just a parent of an “undermotivated” teen.

I am not a coach so I don't have any kids to keep motivated.

The point of SOM is that by making a commitment to meet with your friends twice a week, that, in itself, is a motivator to keep the training going the other days of the week. It is designed to be a recurring self-motivating kinesis.

A coaches responsibility isn't to be the motivator. His responsibility is to imbue in his athletes the ability to become self-motivated. Most teenagers are far more likely to be motivated by their peers than their coaches.

I may have missed your definition of tempo run pace, but I am guessing that you go by feel. For those that want to be more specific would 25 seconds slower than 5K race pace plus/minus 5 seconds be acceptable?

I have a question that I figured I would add to this thread, rather than starting another one.

My PRs are:

400m = 50.06

800m = 1:55

1600 = 4:30

5k (road) = 17:08

From those, I have figured that I don't have much natural aerobic ability. I usually only reached 15 miles/week during track and 20-25 miles/week during cross country (I always assumed that upping my mileage would make me slower in the 800m).

After doing a lot of reading, I realize the importance of developing an aerobic base, so I want to start doing Summer of Malmo (I don't run for a team anymore, so technically, I don't have any season to prepare for in the fall, but I figured the aerobic work would help).

I have spent the last 2 months running singles consistently in preparation for doubles and upping the mileage, but my pace on runs is pretty slow compared to what is expected. My long run pace is about 8 min/mil, while my regular runs are done between 7:00-7:30/mile, which even feels hard some days. I'm worried that once I start doubling that I won't be able to maintain these paces.

Should I slow the paces and focus on consistency (and eventually I'll be able to quicken the pace)? Should I continue doing singles until I can run at faster paces, then start doubles? I'd like to run in some open meets next spring/summer. Should I do a "Fall of Malmo"/"Winter of Malmo?" Kinda lost here. I'd appreciate any help.

I attempted summer of malmo last year and had great results. I went from a 15:40/32:50 (track) guy to a 31:30 xc guy. My summer tempo runs were around the paces you prescribed for the other 32:50 guy at around 5:40 which was just by feel. However I would like individual attention while you're still giving it out.

malmo wrote:If you want my opinion on exact paces for you to do then answer me thes questions.

1) How fast can you normally run 10x400m and with what rest?

2) How fast/far are your normal tempo runs?

3) How fast could you normally do 200m repeats, lets say 10-16 of them?

4) how fast can you normally do mile repeats? How many of them? How much rest?

5) What are your best times?

1) I estimate 63-64 off a minute. Did 12 @ 70-72 off 100m jog (30-40 secs)

2) In season, 5-6 miles at 5:15-5:20

3) Never did this workout but I would say 30's

4) I've done 5 x mile @ 4:55-5:05 off a minute

5) 4:17 during xc season. 15:05 track. 25:10 & 31:30 xc

Is this thread still alive?

If so I would like find out what you would recommend for my summer.

malmo wrote:If you want my opinion on exact paces for you to do then answer me thes questions.

1) How fast can you normally run 10x400m and with what rest?

2) How fast/far are your normal tempo runs?

3) How fast could you normally do 200m repeats, lets say 10-16 of them?

4) how fast can you normally do mile repeats? How many of them? How much rest?

5) What are your best times?

1) I did 10x400 with 3min rest as a middle distance workout in 56/57/62/64/64/62/57/56 yesterday

2) My last tempo was 5:19 for 6 miles (maybe too fast concidering my times) Felt really easy the first 4 miles, but I went hard against the wall and suffered (at the same pace) the last 2 miles

3) I am a middle distance guy. So 200s are easy. 2x8x200 in 27 in season with 200m jog and 5min set rest

4) Mile reps: Maybe 5-6 in 4:55-5:05 with 90sec rest

5) 51mid 1:52 2:26 3:51 15:20 and 33:15

I am training for the 1500 and ran 80miles max this seasion, most times between 70-75. Most normal runs are around 6:15-20pace

I sucked in my last xc season... 26:30

Malmo, is there anything saying I can't do 400's and 1000's or should I stick with 200's. Also when doing the 200's should they feel really easy like I am not working hard. I know about how you should go really easy on these, I just want your opinion on these questions

It is summer. Time to run.

I know you posted this a long time ago I'm just about to finish my first year of track and field in highschool as a freshman I did XC, winter track and currently doing outdoor. I'm trying to prepare to train in the summer for my next cross country season I have some really big ambitions and I want to improve a lot. I want to do SOM and this will be first time doing it this summer.

1. I did around 10x400m repeats in cross country and i was running around the low 70's and high 60's I would say but I don't know for sure

2. The tempo Runs I've done are usually around 2-3 miles and I've done them around 7:15 pace which I could probably go faster I haven't really figured it out to the best of my ability

3. I haven't really done a lot of 200m repeats so I don't have a good answer but I remember being around 30 seconds for some before

4. In Cross Country I did mile repeats four of them at 6:30 pace or a little lower

5. My best times are 5k: 20:32, 1 mile: 5:12, 2 mile: 11:42, haven't really ran a 800m all out but for time trial i got a 2:27, 400m: 57.2

If you're doing SoM strive to do the whole thing--in particular, running with others.

Because you're young in calendar years and training years, I think you could benefit by doing other physical activity besides just running. Early specialization has been shown (the Soviets did an interesting study, BITD) to limit ultimate performance for most.

It's the Spring of the Summer of Malmo threads!

Based on your times, your mile time is by far the strongest - a 5:12 mile is worth about 11 minutes for two miles and mid/high 17s for 5k cross country. This could be because you're truly a miler, or as is commonly true for younger athletes, your aerobic system is underdeveloped. So if your goal is to race well in cross and mile/2 mile track, summer should mostly be about patiently and consistently developing your aerobic capacity.

What does this mean in the SoM?

1. Run more. You didn't mention your mileage, but pretty much no matter what it is, you'll benefit from increasing it. But the majority of that running should be *easy*, like, probably easier than you run in-season. Don't worry about pace/heart rate/etc. - easy is an effort level, not a pace. Malmo says don't stress a weekly long run. Increase mileage as you feel able - it might come quicker than you expect if you keep it *easy*.

2. Do some faster running, but do it *easier* than you think you should. Build your tempo towards 4 miles, but start slower than you think you need to. If you end up cutting down the pace in the last few miles, fine, but no going all out. You mention feeling like you "could probably go faster" on tempo runs - don't! The point of tempos is not to go as fast as possible - it's to get your body and mind used to going decently quick for a fairly long period of time, but finishing with plenty more in the tank. Some 200s are great, but don't worry about time on those either, and take plenty of jog recovery between each one. It can feel fast during the rep, but if you're doing, e.g., 10x200, it shouldn't feel *cumulatively* hard - that is, no hobbling through the cooldown and needing a day off after. Smooth, easy turnover to get you ready for fall workouts is all.

3. Don't overthink it. If you're planning a tempo and feel like crap, do an easy jog instead, and do the tempo the next day. If you feel great on a run, push the last few miles and call that your tempo for the week. If you miss a few days, don't worry. No one day in the summer will make or break your season, so that means no hero workouts, but also no pushing through a little twinge, or beating yourself up for missing a day on vacation. Patient, consistent, and hit the fall ready to train hard, not burnt out.

Happy running!

Good post. When I was in high school, an old school track coach (not the distance coach) told me to run the “1000-mile summer.” I thought he was crazy. But, if I could go back, I would try it. As a senior. Basically run a double of 4 & 8 each and every day, maybe one run of 12 on Sunday for 12 straight weeks. Not too much structure, just go run. Do some striders, hill sprints, push-ups, pull-ups, planks, etc. Life will never be quite as simple as it is in high school, so why not try it? Maybe it’s a 3/6 double for some less experienced runners but just go plow the miles. See how great you can be. The key is just not to hammer everything.

Can a super slow guy like me do SOM? I'm a freshman in high school with the following PRs. I am running for less than a year now.

1600m-5:23

3200m-11:45

If so, what paces do I do my tempo and intervals(pls explain in Jack Daniels terms; I have the book, so that helps me set my training paces easier).

Of course you can do SOM. If you do, you may not be super slow in the fall.

Long repeats, look up cruise interval pace. Start a little slower than that. Especially in the summer, it's much better to do these workouts a little slower and be able to knock them out week after week, building strength.

Short repeats, think effort. Basically, you want to run fast, but not hard. If I recall malmo's scheme, it's okay to be sucking a little wind after some repeats, as long as you take plenty of recovery. So probably JD I pace, but remember that his tables are for guidance, not what you must do. Were it "summer of me", I'd suggest doing short hill repeats for this workout, most weeks. But this is "summer of malmo", so stick to his plan.

The real secret of SOM is consistency. This also happens to be the magic behind every other plan. Everyone is or will be talking big about what they are going to do over the summer. You want to be the guy that looks back in late August and sees what you actually did all summer -- three months of no excuses. Do this, and prepare for a lot of "uh, when did you get fast?". Tell them it was the reindeer milk.

Should I run 6 or 7 days a week? I usually run 6 and use the 7th day as a recovery day.