The Future of Footlocker XC

Duck Walk wrote:

So it just so happens this year that the preponderance of the Top Boy's have chosen NXN over FL, but not the girls (yet).

The "yet" part is speculative at best and what irks people about Nike's hubris. What is going to change next year that hasn't been in place for the last several years that will make the girls suddenly flip flop and go to NXN over FL? Also, many of the guys have decided between themselves to duke it out at NXN this year; what makes that absolutely set in stone to happen every season? It's obvious Nike has some momentum on their side, but beyond that nobody can say with certainty how this will ultimately play out.

runn wrote:

You are 100% correct. The talent it takes to make it is amazing. Maybe it's good that there are two meets. I know a girl who made it in FL and would not have made it if the FM/Saratoga girls were in the race. She would have been FM's 8th runner! And she made it in the FL race. I guess it depends on the region which is the tougher race. FM can put 7 girls in the top 10-12 in the NY State AA race and Aisling Cuffe is better then any of them.

There are very talented athletes in every region who stay home despite two races. In NY they are the same day.

So, who is the girl you are speaking about & what year.

I'm not naming names. But, combine NXN and Footlocker last year- NXN NY, NXN NE,and FL NE and see how many boys and girls would not have gone to nationals if they were one race.

Put Toga and FM girls in the FL NE race. Put everyone from the NXN NE race into the FL NE race. In this part of the country you're talking about 1 race becoming 3 races on the same day.

It's a crap shoot as to which race is tougher.

Yet you take it upon yourself to bash kids who would rather go to Footlocker Nationals than Corporate Nike.

I don't think that's a constructive attitude. Nike and Footlocker are allowed to advertise and hold sales conventions for U.S. High School students. It helps everyone when they spend money on our kids. Nike tried the H.S. team thing and it hasn't worked out as well. Kids at that age run for the team but look forward to college life as individuals. Footlocker has that. It's stupid adults who have to re-live their pathetic childhood and pit FL vs NX when there is no such rivalry. In fact many of the FL and NX volunteers are the same old guys that travel around to NIN, NON, as well as NXN and FLN. FL has sold Nike gear for decades and will continue to do so. Please let the kids have fun at their XC jamborees (aka FL, aka NX)

runn wrote:

You are 100% correct. The talent it takes to make it is amazing. Maybe it's good that there are two meets. I know a girl who made it in FL and would not have made it if the FM/Saratoga girls were in the race. She would have been FM's 8th runner! And she made it in the FL race. I guess it depends on the region which is the tougher race. FM can put 7 girls in the top 10-12 in the NY State AA race and Aisling Cuffe is better then any of them.

There are very talented athletes in every region who stay home despite two races. In NY they are the same day.

Well it follows that if you have 3 championship level races that some will make it that wouldn't if it was only 1 meet.

With that said, if the girl you are referring to is Lauren Mullins, then I think you're being somewhat disingenuous with the matter of fact statement that she'd be FM's 8th runner. That would hold only at '09 States (on a merge, as they didn't race head to head). If you look at her comparative times the next few weeks at Feds and FLNE, she'd be in the mix with the 2nd and 3rd FM girl and probably ahead of all of Saratoga's runners with the exception of Hollowood.

From the looks of it, this may be the first year it could be argued the champion of Footlocker isn't the best runner in the country.

Nike went out and recruited the top kids in the country with a free summer camp this summer if I'm reading this right. Now these kids are running NXN. It must be legal according to NCAA rules but back in the day shoe companies couldn't fly kids to free camps.

If Footlocker wants to remain on top they had better fight back.

NXN is vulnerable in that it is a "team competition" masked as a "club competition". A few questions:

1) What prevents 7 good kids from the same region getting together forming a "club" and winning NXN?

2) Don't some states prevent their athletes from running NXN because it is a unsanctioned team competition? What if more states go down this route and say sorry teams can no longer run? What if Footlocker started calling up the state associations and said, "hey you might want to look into NXN" No way would the states allow a "club national championship" for basketball or football.

What if at the NCAA level, the 100 best kids of the top 4 NCAA football schools formed a "club" and had a national championship tournament after the bowl games to determine the real national championship. They'd all be ruled ineligible in 4 seconds.

Duck Walk wrote:

it just so happens this year that the preponderance of the Top Boy's have chosen NXN over FL

If they were the best they'd be going to Footlocker Nationals.

Duck Walk wrote:

Futsum will not be at NXN Finals. If the top kids are there, why isn't he. Families don't have to go to watch a race in Portland unless their child qualifies same applies if they drive to FL ..... they must qualify 1st. Futsum choose the easier path by choosing FL regardless of any outside factors. He passed on racing the best field. It is not a bash just a fact. To be one of the best you need to run with the best end of story.

Do you know Futsum? Have you spoken with him and asked him why he chose FL? Probably not, so you have no idea what you are talking about. Do you think he got with all the other top HS runners in the nation to ask them which race they were going to run so he could choose the opposite? Futsum is a top national HS runner he has absolutely no reason to duck competition. Maybe the Nike runners are ducking him.

But the best have chosen NXN (boys) and not FL so how do you explain that?

Kudos to both Footlocker and Nike. Competition in the market* has always been a good thing as it pushes both programs to compete for the top talent by elevating the competition (as Nike has recently done). Hopefully, Footlocker will respond soon. With all of the history and tradition on their side, as well as the now 'underdog'** status they are in a great place to promote their event. If it were me, I'd try to shoot an advertisement with past winners (some of whom would be Nike sponsored athletes now).

Whether you like them or not, Nike has proven to be an economic boon for running (albeit verging on monopolistic at times) and now have built, what some see, as a competitive advantage over FL. In historical tradition, Footlocker erected a national platform for emerging talent (Ritz, Hall, Rupp), and this was seen as an advantage at one time. Nike entered the market to get a piece of that advantage. With that said, it is inarguable that each has its own right, in the free market, to continue with what they are doing. Even if FL is weaker on the mens side this year (although I'm not sure I fully agree), it is still a viable competition due to its history and strong tradition.

As a coach, the only thing I find unfair, is that in the NE region you are forced to pick one or the other since the qualifiers are on the same day. Whereas athletes from other regions could theoretically run both, in the NE you have to choose one prior to the regional race. Come race day, this does dampen the competition since the top group ends up being split in half. This may be caused by the extended race calendar in the East but I would like to see the option to run both in the future.

I have also found that since the two competitions are separated 3 hours geographically (NXN= upstate in Bowdoin Park , FL= Sunken Meadow, Long Island), that most of the upstate athletes end up at NXN and the Long Island, Conn, NYC, and other surrounding area athletes end up at FootLocker. Which, if you ask me, splits the competition down the middle. And to even further split things up, at NXN, New York is seen as its own region, meaning you race only NY athletes, and at FL you are going against the best in the NE region, a larger swath of athletes. It is interesting to see how this plays out every year. Especially since at FL you end up racing athletes you have never seen before and at NXN you race the same competitors you just saw the weekend before at the NY Federations meet (seems repetitive).

I am lucky enough to be coaching a talented athlete who is on the highest level to compete and qualify at either of these competitions. He chose FootLocker and I agreed with him. But in the future, I wouldn't be surprised if I took an athlete to NXN. Time will tell.

* I use 'market' because FL and N are both businesses.

** I don't think they are the underdog per se, but if enough people see them in that light, then it would make sense to use that platform to catapult themselves back on top.

As a side note- I must admit that it did make me laugh to see FL= Final Lap, but more honestly put, it should be labeled First Lap, since they were the ones to start the National Championship.

Doubtful anyone is ducking Futsum or that the Top runners even care he is not going to NXN as they have chosen to challenge each other at NXN and Futsum did not. How can so many be wrong? It is clear he choose the easier path by avoiding LV, Driggs, Wills, Rosa, Cheserek, Moussa, Gedyon, Elkaim and the top Calif boys who have already expressed attending NXN if they are top 5 this weekend at the Calif State Meet (merge). I get a chuckle out of you even thinking they are avoiding him. This is not a knock on him, but a fact that he choose a race that will not be including the runners most would consider the top runners.

"To Be One of the Best, You Must Run With Em'". If you choose not to run with them, then you ain't one of them.

Duck Walk wrote:"To Be One of the Best, You Must Run With Em'". If you choose not to run with them, then you ain't one of them.

If you want to live by that, then the same must hold true for girls (that aren't on top teams) that have chosen NXN over FL this year.

How much is Nike paying you, Duck Walk? A regular Stalin!

Great post coach. Only question on my part is why you might doubt that FL is not obviously weaker on the men's side this year v NXN. Fl is viable for many especially with 10 qualifying spots v 5 at NXN. With 17 of the Top 25 ESPN Rise ranked runners planning on NXN, how can that not be the stronger field even with some potential NXN/FL doublers?

Good luck to your runner and hope he makes it to FL Finals as a qualifier either from FL NE/S/MW this weekend. With only 5 qualifying spots at NXN NE and with Rosa, Cheserek, Elkaim and Mazzacaro in the field and likely CBA qualifying as a team, one might sense that only 2 individual spots could be available at NXN NE. On the opposite, Fl has a wide open 10 spots available in the NE as these 4 will not race FL. Would you think that to be the case in the NXN v FL individual analysis especially with regards to the NE?

Also the leader on the FL = First Lap doesn't always finish first on the FL = Final Lap.

But, do you see the point I'm making? I'm not saying anyone is a week runner- esp Lauren Mullins.

Right now it's Mike- 2 teams/5 ind's. FL 10 individuals.

Why not one race with 2 teams/10 individuals?

Obviously there are people who are going to make it who would not if it was one race.

I wasn't talking about Lauren, I was actually talking about someone from a couple years ago.

That said, there are people with a legit shot who wouldn't make it if it was one race.

By the way, I know Lauren Mullins and I would put her agasint any of the top runners. She is one tough runner. And, she would NEVER look for an "easier" race.

No disagreement there Buck.

Actually, they pay me to watch road rashed become road kill as it applies to the FL event. Actually not a Stalin, but a Knight.

Watch for the FL announcement after this year's event as Choc Man states. Wonder what that can be?

runn wrote:

But, do you see the point I'm making? I'm not saying anyone is a week runner- esp Lauren Mullins.

Right now it's Mike- 2 teams/5 ind's. FL 10 individuals.

Why not one race with 2 teams/10 individuals?

Obviously there are people who are going to make it who would not if it was one race.

I wasn't talking about Lauren, I was actually talking about someone from a couple years ago.

That said, there are people with a legit shot who wouldn't make it if it was one race.

By the way, I know Lauren Mullins and I would put her agasint any of the top runners. She is one tough runner. And, she would NEVER look for an "easier" race.

Of course I see your point, it's simple math.

So, why be coy, who is the specific girl you are referring to - is it Cawley or somebody outside of NY? There's nothing bad being said about this runner, so it shouldn't be some sort of secret. I'm asking because I have a hard time believing your assertion that the runner in question would finish behind FM's 7th runner (my interpretation: on a regular basis, not based on a one off result).

I was originally referring to Cawley. There were races shere she (and Mullins) would finish behind FM's 7th girl.

They could also break into their top 5. I guess the point is, I just wish there was one National Championship race. We have this opportunity to be the only sport with a true National Champ and we have two!

On one hand- it gives more athletes that great opportunity.

On the other- two national champs

Make it one race, expand the field- hell- 2 teams and 15 individuals!

Nike and Footlocker get together again and everyone wins. You might even get something like that on National TV.