jjjjjjjj wrote:
What in this story does not suggest that this is a case of a person with no right to compete with women?
the people who have actually examined the medical files have cleared her to compete.
jjjjjjjj wrote:
What in this story does not suggest that this is a case of a person with no right to compete with women?
the people who have actually examined the medical files have cleared her to compete.
With 3 times the testosterone of an average woman, he is more male than female. Female runners have been banned for lower tsetosterone than he has. Because some liberals think they are being nice, every real woman in the race is being cheated. It's too bad that there is no category for him, but to hurt everyone else is simply wrong.
DocLove wrote:
Some good news at least the IAAF have received a delivery of some new stadium signs:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/7529227.stmMust have been what the 11 month delay was for
Does s/he have menses?
ukathleticscoach wrote:
Myself I'm not that bothered as its a one off case (or very rare) and because doping is the main problem in sport
But you're not a woman with a man in your race.
kaitainen wrote:
jjjjjjjj wrote:What in this story does not suggest that this is a case of a person with no right to compete with women?
the people who have actually examined the medical files have cleared her to compete.
While this is true, there is no indication that decision was made based on what was found in the medical files. This was the statement:
"The process initiated in 2009 in the case of Caster Semenya has now been completed. The IAAF accepts the conclusion of a panel of medical experts that she can compete with immediate effect. Please note that the medical details of the case remain confidential and the IAAF will make no further comment on the matter."
There is nothing in there about gender determination. My best guess is that currently there is no policy for athletes with androgen insensitiviy syndrome (which I think Semenya has) and as a result they defer to the athlete.
kaitainen wrote:
jjjjjjjj wrote:What in this story does not suggest that this is a case of a person with no right to compete with women?
the people who have actually examined the medical files have cleared her to compete.
That certainly makes it black and white for you doesn't it.
you are either blind or disingenuous. LOL No one is talking about the color of the hair.
IMHO the other runners should refuse to run against CS. What if the world found out that Bolt has 3 testes? Would you run against a man with 3?
J.R. wrote:
kaitainen wrote:the people who have actually examined the medical files have cleared her to compete.
That certainly makes it black and white for you doesn't it.
not at all. thank you for the insult though. i merely responded to a person's question with an accurate factual statement (with further details helpfully provided by the person above you).
i've already said multiple times on this thread that in my opinion semenya is the "easy" case. i.e., that she is most likely over whatever line one would draw. and i've also criticized the iaaf response.
This admittedly troll thread took flight under it`s own wings.
IAAF has ruled CS is allowed to compete in the non-male division...that is all that matters.
If you want more clarification ask the IAAF to publish the guidelines.
We do not need to know the specifics of CS`s case we just need to know the standard they apply in gender veification.
Geting the guidelines published should be the focus of our concerns. The bigger issue here is the transparency of IAAF rulings and the reasonng behind them.
Number one on the hit parade!
I`m shocked I expected this to sink to the bottom and off to history-
BTW Although I have met Ms Diane Cummins only twice I am convinced when she says she is one of the few on the tour who actually talk to CS I believe her and crikey she does speak her mind. Her issue is with the IAAF not Semenya.
WiT
The skinny dude behind here might have to be tested for testes as well.
genger non-specific wrote:
If you want more clarification ask the IAAF to publish the guidelines.
We do not need to know the specifics of CS`s case we just need to know the standard they apply in gender veification.
Geting the guidelines published should be the focus of our concerns. The bigger issue here is the transparency of IAAF rulings and the reasonng behind them.
There are no guidelines. IAAF at the last exec. committee meeting put together a working group to come up with some.
Mr. Obvious wrote:
There are no guidelines. IAAF at the last exec. committee meeting put together a working group to come up with some.
I suspect the IAAf HAD to rule as they did in this case. With no quidelines to support a different ruling, they would be set up for a huge lawsuit by the CS camp if they disallowed her from competition.
Let's hope that they come up with the guidelines BEFORE the next world and Olympic championships.
Also, let's hope that they disallow hermaphrodites with testicles from competing in women's events. If they do, one would hope that CS would then become ineligible to compete against women in Daegu and London.
I'm afraid if they don't come up with some guidelines to protect our ladies, we are going to find that our female competitions will be taken over by a bunch of he/shes
CS is just toying with "hish" competitors. These are carefully timed workouts and nothing more. The IAAF should be ashamed of how they've handled this. The secrecy surrounding their decision has made a mockery of the w800m. Last year I felt compassion for CS but after witnessing this last race in Berlin no more. CS is aware of what's going on and "hish" reaction after the win was a "screw you" to everyone. To the ladies of the 800m, "Run your race-within-a-race with pride. YOU are the competitors!" I am sorry you must deal with this travesty and I wish you the best!
Oh yeah! wrote:
CS is just toying with "hish" competitors. These are carefully timed workouts and nothing more. The IAAF should be ashamed of how they've handled this. The secrecy surrounding their decision has made a mockery of the w800m. Last year I felt compassion for CS but after witnessing this last race in Berlin no more. CS is aware of what's going on and "hish" reaction after the win was a "screw you" to everyone. To the ladies of the 800m, "Run your race-within-a-race with pride. YOU are the competitors!" I am sorry you must deal with this travesty and I wish you the best!
Sadly, all this is true. I had a bit of sympathy for Semenya early on, but that began decreasing as the whole thing went on, and vanished many months ago. This whole issue is a complete farce. The fact that the IAAF "approved" him/her to compete says absolutely nothing about the medical/biological facts--which they have made very clear are to remain "secret." Why, I wonder? Well, actually, I don't wonder--the medical facts would not be in Semenya's favor, at all--that should be very clear.
Let me take a wild guess here. Semenya is not competing because he/she "loves" the sport and just wants to fulfill her/his destiny. It's an economic issue--there is a good deal of money to be made, and Semenya's team has decided that that's what they are going to do. And, of course, in so doing they are depriving all the rest of the world's 800 women--let me amend that to "all the world's 800 women", forget "the rest"--of income that should be theirs.
This absurd matter will make a mockery of women's athletics, and futher turn off the few "casual" viewers that may still be out there.
This stinks to high heaven, and I'm afraid is only going to stink more as time goes on.
Get over yourselves people. Yes, the IAAF probably messed this up. No, she probably should not be allowed to compete. On that, I think I agree with the majority. But those of you thinking that they should have released medical findings to the public??? What the hell guys? Under no circumstances should that ever happen, period. So kudos to them for not doing so and shame on those posters who think their curiosity is more important than some poor girl's dignity.
As Mr. Spock would say, “the needs of the many out weigh the needs of the few” – or in this case the needs of the one. And as much as I feel for Caster, I also feel for all those women out there that will never have the opportunity to compete against her from a level playing field – no matter what they do short of cheating. It is for that reason that I take the position that she should not be allowed to compete against them. It’s very unfortunate because no matter what the final decision is there is a loser – the ultimate question is how many losers?
the letter why wrote:
Yes, the IAAF probably messed this up. No, she probably should not be allowed to compete. On that, I think I agree with the majority. But those of you thinking that they should have released medical findings to the public??? What the hell guys? Under no circumstances should that ever happen, period. So kudos to them for not doing so and shame on those posters who think their curiosity is more important than some poor girl's dignity.
What? You agree that Semenya should not be allowed to compete--but now that s/he is, no one has a right to know the facts? That's nuts. I just don't buy the "privacy" issue here. Semenya has CHOSEN to be an internationally-known public figure, by his/her CHOICE to compete in world class athletics. Thus, "we" are not demanding to pry into anyone private life--"we" are simply wanting proof that both the letter and the spirit of the rules of international athletics are being upheld. At present, very few of "us" think that they are being upheld in this case. I strongly think that it's money and the threat of lawsuits that have given us this IAAF decision--not medical science.
old tymer wrote:
What? You agree that Semenya should not be allowed to compete--but now that s/he is, no one has a right to know the facts? That's nuts. I just don't buy the "privacy" issue here. Semenya has CHOSEN to be an internationally-known public figure, by his/her CHOICE to compete in world class athletics. Thus, "we" are not demanding to pry into anyone private life--"we" are simply wanting proof that both the letter and the spirit of the rules of international athletics are being upheld. At present, very few of "us" think that they are being upheld in this case. I strongly think that it's money and the threat of lawsuits that have given us this IAAF decision--not medical science.
Apparently you are having reading comperhension problems. You could release all the files you and regardless of what they say we would still not know the the letter and the spirit of the rules of international athletics are being upheld because there are no letters, there are no rules, there are no guidelines for gender determination.
old tymer wrote:
That's nuts.
Exactly.
