Coe managed to get his head together for the 1500. In the 800 final he was just a bag of nerves, incapable of good tactics, whilst Ovett, as you know. used his shoulder arms and elbow to good effect. Would Ovett get DQ'd for that kind of running these days? I'm sure he would.
Suzy Hamilton in the 2000 Olympic final 1500. Won Zurich in the fastest time of the year in 3:57. In the final took the lead, then on the 3rd lap started racing Carla Sacramento who tried to take the lead. They ran 61 for the third lap and basically ran themselves out of medal contention. Sacramento died at the end of the lap and Hamilton was spent about 100 meters later. The field passed her on the curve and she had her infamous (and embarrassing) collapse on the final straight. Why would someone who had been a professional for years "race" the third lap for nothing?
z runner wrote:
You're right asdfasfasfds, I just looked at the 88 race on YouTube. Rono takes the lead at more like 700 out, and after that really just at the front of the pack. By contrast Keino took the lead in 68 at about 800 out, but then really gapped the field to hold off Ryun at the end. So I'm still not aware of an Olympic 1500 gold medalist taking the lead during the second lap and holding on to win.
? Keino took the lead on the second lap.
Average_Joe wrote:
If you read his book, he explains why he did it.
Late in 1983 he sat down with Len Miller and they mapped out their options. Understand now, he was going for the gold. Not the bronze or the silver. Gold or nothing.
They realized that most championship 1500 races were slow paced affairs with fast final laps. They realized that such a race would leave a poor kicker like Scott with little chance of the gold. In the 1983 World Champs he lost to Steve Cram due to a very slow early pace. He did NOT want that in the Olympic final. He did best race off of an honest, fast pace.
So for him to win the gold in LA the pace had to be fast. A fast pace would obviously not ensure victory but a slow pace would absolutely rule it out.
So all of his prep and buildup in 1984 was designed with that in mind. Leading the race, pushing the pace. If no one else would do that in the final, he would. Keino had won gold with that strategy.
It didn't work, of course, but that was the reasoning. It's easy for us to sit here, 26 years later and call it a bad move. If Keino had lost you could do the same thing, I guess.
i knew kip keino. and frankly scott you are no kip keino
{sorry, had to say that heh heh}
carry on
Skuj wrote:
Mr. Wang wrote:In all likelihood, Scott got caught up in the "do or die" mentality and, feeling strong after one lap, decided to go for it. This is a form of panic, or choking, and the results bore that out.
To win championship races, you have to ride the razor's edge between serenity and all-out effort. This is difficult when the enormity of the moment makes your insides quake with urgency. Coe and Cram were more confident and prudently dialed up the intensity at an appropriate rate.
The annals of 1500m history are filled with incidences where someone tries, in vain, to bury the field with a ridiculous mid-race surge. More often than not, those moves are the runner's way of saying, "I can't take the pressure anymore... I'm going to end this now," and are made by someone who feels he has little chance of winning.
I just want to say that THIS is one hell of a post. Brojos, does that POD thing actually do anything?
sounds like booby kennedy
bwah!!!!
Surprise! wrote:
here is the money wrote:On the other hand, the fittest man does not always win. Bekele lost to El G at 5000 meters. I would argue the WR holder and 12:37 man is more fit for the 5k than a 1500 specialist with a 12:50 pr, wouldn't you?
Sure he's more fit for the 5000m if that race is run at world record pace. Bekele lost to El G in a 13:14 race.
However, he lost to Kipchoge and El G a year earlier in a WC race won in 12:52.
So this tells me that for Bekele to beat El G he would have to run near world record pace. Or it might tell us that El G's 12:50 PR was nowhere near what he was capable of had he devoted his time solely to the 5000m.
i can just see vipam fall into a fetal position and cry like a baby after reading this post
He was a 1500m specialist who always said he trained like a 10,000m runner.
Alf Shrubb. wrote:
wellnow wrote:Not true, Coe got a Silver and a Gold in Moscow, Ovett a Gold and a Bronze.
Quite - Jurgen Straub of all people, actually beat Ovett in the 1500 final.
In fact, it was Straub’s tactics in that race that handed the gold medal to Coe on a plate.
Despite losing the 800m, Coe was still the faster finisher in that race. His last 200m was 24.9 (compared to Ovett's 25.0) and that was running wide in lane 2 for almost all that last bend.
As for Straub handing Coe the gold on a plate, I think that's conjecture. Certainly his sustained run from 700m out, was welcomed by Coe, as he was better off a sustained drive than Ovett, but I feel Coe would have won whatever that day. Straight from the start he was on the leader's shoulder and would have covered a break by anyone. He was clearly in a different frame of mind to the runner that lined up for the 800m, and he wasn't going to make the same mistake twice in a week!
Then he outkicked Ovett with 100m to go despite them being almost level at the beginning of the straight. Coe's final 12.1 hasn't been matched in a major championships since, and was too good for Ovett's 12.7 - the same time he ran for the last 100m in the 800m, interestingly.
So yes, Coe was a better athlete in Moscow, because he won gold and silver and was faster over the last 200m than Ovett in both races.
Pre in Munich.
I don't think the race needed to be near WR pace. In fact I am pretty sure if KB had tried to solo a WR, things wouldn't have ended well. Now a blistering last 1k-2k probably would have been a good idea instead of trying to take El G in the last 400m. But that could have just set the race up for one of the kenyans. Figuring out how to beat 1 guy is easy. Figuring out how to beat 2 or 3 guys with different strengths is much harder.
creep wrote:
Surprise! wrote:Sure he's more fit for the 5000m if that race is run at world record pace. Bekele lost to El G in a 13:14 race.
However, he lost to Kipchoge and El G a year earlier in a WC race won in 12:52.
So this tells me that for Bekele to beat El G he would have to run near world record pace. Or it might tell us that El G's 12:50 PR was nowhere near what he was capable of had he devoted his time solely to the 5000m.
i can just see vipam fall into a fetal position and cry like a baby after reading this post
He was a 1500m specialist who always said he trained like a 10,000m runner.
David Bedford 1972 Olympic 10,000m
Gordon Pirie, 1956 Melbourne 10,000m. Tried to run with Vladamir Kuts, who was basically doing the whole thing like a 30/40 workout. Kuts and Pirie were way out front going into the last mile, and ended up finishing 8th, 75 seconds back from Kuts.