Cyclist Floyd Landis Admits Doping, Alleges Use by Armstrong and Others .

luv2run wrote:

Lots of evidence and sworn testimony (under oath), Lance was acquitted.

It was a civil case. You don't get acquitted in civil cases.

Avocados Number wrote:

I don't quite understand what's going on in the minds of those like the previous poster ("this seems just a desparate [sic] attempt to grab some publicity"). I'll grant them that Landis is a liar, at least when his own career is on the line, but I don't see much to be gained by libeling Armstrong.

I agree. Once would have to be rather creative in their interpretation of Landis's motivations, to think he is lying here so as to gain fame and fortune. He has little to gain other than clearing of his conscious. My guess is he just "vomited" all this out in some sort of purging of guilt and shame. He has exposed himself to more ridicule, humiliation and, of course, libel suits that he likely cannot defend himself against. While I can't know for sure, lying in this context hardly seems plausible.

I don't think replacing Schumacher talking about Solinsky with this as the quote of the day makes much sense on a running site, but maybe that's just me. Was anyone under the impression that any of the top Tour de France guys were NOT on drugs?

Yanqui wrote:

I don't think replacing Schumacher talking about Solinsky with this as the quote of the day makes much sense on a running site, but maybe that's just me. Was anyone under the impression that any of the top Tour de France guys were NOT on drugs?

Things are much much better now due to the very stringent rules (and a degree of co-operation in the peloton.). Of course it's still going on though.

Drugs is an important issue bearing in mind how much benefit they give you and how few people are actually caught in track and field.

This sport is absolutely rife with PEDs and the IAAF (Diack) don't want to do anything about it. (unless it's catching a few more Russians and Greeks to appease the mindless fanboys who think they care about the sport.)

Get the biological passports sorted and see those 5k/10k/Marathon times slow down.

I just want to know who the totally clean cyclists (and runners) are so I can say, "you are the greatest in the world!" That, to me, is the saddest part. The real heroes remain unknown.

Mr. Obvious wrote:

luv2run wrote:

Lots of evidence and sworn testimony (under oath), Lance was acquitted.

It was a civil case. You don't get acquitted in civil cases.

The SCA case went to arbitration. The arbitration panel ruled that SCA did not have the right to withhold payment and insist on verification that Lance was clean under the terms of the contract. SCA tried to make it a case about Lance doping. But it wasn't. So, there was no finding in that case that Lance was clean.

To the contrary, Frankie Andreu reluctantly testified that he heard Lance tell his cancer doctor that he took PEDs.

And that is the danger in suing Landis. Landis is an insider and not an insurance company. He will know who knows what. People may decide to go the David Millar route and come clean for the sake of the sport.

Sure, you can argue that Landis lied for four years. But, Landis may get other people on the record who have not been in drug trouble. That is the danger for Lance and Johan.

I don't see it this way. It seems to me that human beings who do something illegal or morally wrong (as defined as some commonly accepted standard in society) follow a predictable pattern in many cases:

First, deny, deny, deny.

Second, when option one becomes untenable, attack or attempt to mitigate the value of the standard. In other words, either claim the standard is unreasonable, or attempt to dilute one's own behavior by demonstrating that many or most of one's respected peers are doing or have done the same thing. It's almost a psychological coping mechanism. It is certainly a mechanism to help one redeem oneself in the eyes of the public. If everyone was doing it, it can't be that bad, right? I mean, "I had to do it to compete?" My behavior was simply the understandable outcome of environment I was living in.

Think about it. Tons of people follow this pattern. Adulterers often claim, "well everyone else is doing it." Same with people guilty of corruption, embezzlement, whatever. Lots of people guilty of something that ruins their reputation seek redemption by bringing down others to their level, thereby watering down their transgression.

So what does Landis have to gain by falsely fingering Armstrong and others? Just his reputation and the sympathy of those he still wants respect from. That's not a minor motive.

I will preface by saying that I do believe Lance is dirty. I used to not but once person after person he was beating was being busted you have to open your eyes a little bit. But to say that Landis has nothing to gain by lying and going after Armstrong is SO wrong. He's talking about Lance, the golden boy, the man in yellow. That will get people focused on Landis and like someone said, book deals, appearances, etc. He has a ton to gain by talking about Lance, had anyone on here even mentioned his name in the last year?

Average_Joe wrote:

I have to admit, I actually did think he was not guilty. I really did believe him. I strangely feel the need to publicly admit THAT here.

And even now I actually do still believe Armstrong is not a doper.

That's pretty funny. You admit to once being a clueless, deluded fanboy but has now seen the light.

Then you finish your post by saying, actually, having said that, I'm still a clueless deluded fanboy.

Until next time I guess. Who will it be? The messiah himself? Bekele? Bolt?

Just read it you blind eyed idealists.

The article will open you to reality I've included just a snipet, which I will break down further for the truly simple minded denialists:

1999 (pre epo test) urine samples re-tested in 2005.

87 samples tested

13 positives

6 of the 13 (nearly half) were lance armstrongs

anonther 2 of his (making that 8 now) clearly showed synthetic EPO in his urine but because of the detailed testing system couldn't be declared as positive.

('99 Tour urine samples re-tested in '05

AS: Let's go back to the '99 urine samples, these were B samples which were preserved. Was it for academic reasons that they re-tested, to get a sense of how things were at the time?

MA: I mentioned earlier there'd been revisions over time of what the positivity criteria were. Initially it was 80% basic isoforms. The research that was conducted with these samples was informing them of whether new criteria they were considering applying would have been effective in catching athletes in previous events.

The only kind of samples that are useful in that context are samples that have got EPO in them, 'cause then you could say by criteria A you'd fail, but by criteria B you didn't fail, and by criteria C we saw nothing at all. And that was the purpose of the Paris investigation - to go back, to look at samples, and to see how the different criteria applied. And it was, I don't think it was cynical, it was realistic, they realized that the most likely samples where they would find EPO were samples collected before the EPO test was introduced. And that was the '99 Tour de France.

Lance Armstrong's '99 samples test positive

AS: So out of the 87 usable samples that they gathered, they got 13 positives and 6 of them belonged to Lance Armstrong.

MA: Depending on which criteria you applied. Yes, six of them failed the definitive criteria. There were another two samples in fact where the EPO was visually there in the gel. You could see it was there, but for one reason or another, the percentage isoforms weren't calculated, or had to be re-analyzed, or it was a little bit too faint to get a definitive result. Yes, there were six samples with EPO in it, and there were another two samples where it was pretty plain to a trained observer that there was synthetic EPO in those as well.)

just on Bloomberg,they going through Landis's E-mails.this may get interesting

Ebenezer wrote:

3) How did Armstrong beat champion-level racers who were doping by such a large margin? Better training methods? More grit? Hypnotists? Acupuncture? Drinking turtle blood? Tell me what your theory is, because I'd like to know...

They never looked cancer in the eye and beat it down! That and the fact he was from Texas just made him way tougher than them! Come on! (sarcasm to the hilt)

I bet Landis has a tell all book for sale pretty soon.

Honestly, I have cheered for Lance for years, and respected him as one of the greatest ever. But, come on, almost everyone from his era has been implicated in doping; many have admitted it, including a number of former teammates. With a drug culture that pervasive, especially amongst your own team, I find the notion of Lance being clean as highly doubtful, as much as I may want to believe it.

Many of those guys never failed a doping test...

nike should be sh**ing their pants, it only a matter of time....

getting old wrote:

Honestly, I have cheered for Lance for years, and respected him as one of the greatest ever. But, come on, almost everyone from his era has been implicated in doping; many have admitted it, including a number of former teammates. With a drug culture that pervasive, especially amongst your own team, I find the notion of Lance being clean as highly doubtful, as much as I may want to believe it.

Many of those guys never failed a doping test...

Just read my post above, THE GUY HAS FAILED TESTS. Bang, blam, boom. The man used EPO Absolutely in 1999. The tests PROOVE it.

You can see what purports to be Landis's chronology here: http://cozybeehive.blogspot.com/2010/05/floyd-landis-letter-of-confession.html

Claims detailed contents of Landis email (long):

2002: I was instructed on how to use Testosterone patches by Johan Bruyneel

during the During the Dauphine Libere in June, after which I flew on a

helicopter with Mr Armstrong from the finish, I believe Grenoble, to San

Mauritz Switzerland at which point I was personally handed a box of 2.5 mg

patches in front of his wife who witnessed the exchange. About a week

later, Dr Ferrari performed an extraction of half a liter of blood to be

transfused back into me during the Tour de France. Mr Armstrong was not

witness to the extraction but he and I had lengthy discussions about it on

our training rides during which time he also explained to me the evolution

of EPO testing and how transfusions were now necessary due to the

inconvenience of the new test. He also divulged to me at that time that in

the first year that the EPO test was used he had been told by Mr Ferrari,

who had access to the new test, that he should not use EPO anymore but he

did not believe Mr Farrari and contin

ued to use it. He later, while winning the Tour de Swiss, the month before

the Tour de France, tested positive for EPO at which point he and Mr

Bruyneel flew to the UCI headquarters and made a financial agreement with

Mr. Vrubrugen to keep the positive test hidden.

2003: After a broken hip in the winter, I flew to Gerona Spain where this

time two units (half a liter each) were extracted three weeks apart. This

took place in the apartment in which Mr. Armstrong lived and in which I was

asked to stay and check the blood temperature every day. It was kept in a

small refrigerator in the closet allong with the blood of Mr Armstrong and

George Hincapie and since Mr. Armstrong was planning on being gone for a few

weeks to train he asked me to stay in his place and make sure the

electricity didn’t turn off or something go wrong with the referigerator.

Then during the Tour de France the entire team, on two different occasions

went to the room that we were told and the doctor met us there to do the

transfusions. During that Tour de France I personally witnessed George

Hincapie, Lance Armstrong, Chechu Rubiera, and myself receiving blood

transfusions. Also during that Tour de France the team doctor would give my

room mate, George Hincapie an

d I a small syringe of olive oil in which was disolved andriol, a form of

ingestible testosterone on two out of three nights throughout the duration.

I was asked to ride the Vuelta a Espana that year in support of Roberto

Heras and in August, between the Tour and the Vuelta, was told to take EPO

to raise my hematocrit back up so more blood transfusions could be

performed. I was instructed to go to Lances place by Johan Bruyneel and get

some EPO from him. The first EPO I ever used was then handed to me in the

entry way to his building in full view of his then wife. It was Eprex by

brand and it came in six pre measured syringes. I used it intravenously for

several weeks before the next blood draw and had no problems with the tests

during the Vuelta. Also during this time it was explained to me how to use

Human Growth Hormone by Johan Bruyneel and I bought what I needed from Pepe

the team “trainer” who lived in Valencia along with the team doctor at that

time. While training for that Vuelta I spent a good deal of time training

with Matthew White and Michael Barry and shared the testosterone and EPO

that we had and discu

ssed the use thereof while training.

Again, during the Vuelta we were given Andriol and blood transfusions by the

team doctor and had no problems with any testing.

2004: Again the team performed two seperate blood transfusions on me, but

this time Bruyneel had become more paranoid and we did the draws by flying

to Belgium and meeting at an unknown persons appartment and the blood was

brought by “Duffy” who was at that time Johans assistant of sorts. The

second of which was performed on the team bus on the ride from the finish of

a stage to the hotel during which the driver pretended to have engine

trouble and stopped on a remote mountain road for an hour or so so the

entire team could have half a liter of blood added. This was the only time

that I ever saw the entire team being transfused in plain view of all the

other riders and bus driver. That team included Lance Armstrong, George

Hincapie and I as the only Americans.

2005: I had learned at this point how to do most of the transfusion

technicals and other things on my own so I hired Allen Lim as my assistant

to help with details and logistics. He helped Levi Leipheimer and I prepare

the transfusions for Levi and I and made sure they were kept at the proper

temperature. We both did two seperate transfusions that Tour however my

hematocrit was too low at the start so I did my first one a few days before

the start so as to not start with a deficit.

2006: Well you get the idea……. One thing of great signigicance is that

I sat down with Andy Riis and explained to him what was done in the past and

what was the risk I would be taking and ask for his permission which he

granted in the form of funds to complete the operation described. John

Lelangue was also informed by me and Andy Riis consulted with Jim Ochowitz

before agreeing.

There are many many more details that I have in diaries and am in the

process of writing into an intelligible story but since the position of USA

Cycling is that there have not been enough details shared to justify calling

USADA, I am writing as many as I can reasonably put into an email and share

with you so as to ascertain what is the process which USA Cycling uses to

proceed with such allegations.

Look forward to much more detail as soon as you can demonstrate that you can

be trusted to do the right thing.

Floyd Landis

Lance could very easily dope, and I almost don't see why he wouldn't. There is no official test for autolous blood transfusions. EPO cannot always be detected, depending on when you used it last. I'm not sure why any of these guys would use steroids or HGH. Those are very detectable, and shouldn't the other drugs be enough?

Even if Lance doped, he's not a terrible athlete. Winning 7 Tours in a row is insane. He must have worked extremely hard and has immense talent.

Landis does not seem entirely credible. The article quotes his discussion about Armstrong keeping blood in his apt... I agree with whoever mentioned this before, Lance would know better than that. The WDA routinely searches homes for incriminating evidence.

I would LOVE to see these emails. You think they'll be released?