My friend wants to have a "That 60's Race" which does just what you say. He even wants to get some charcoal Bar-B-Que grills for the post race food.
My friend wants to have a "That 60's Race" which does just what you say. He even wants to get some charcoal Bar-B-Que grills for the post race food.
No frills races NEVER work. I tried it for 10 years. When people see there is no entry fee and it is located on some HS CC course (a great place to do it) they think it's just some el-cheapo thing that is unorganized.
I couldn't even get the local paper to advertise it for all those years.
My buddy was a timer guy and I hired him to do computerized results..I bought clocks for the finish..
I even bought awards for the top finishers..
But, when people heard some guy was putting on a free race at the cc course the opposite psychology kicked in..
They just....I think the most I got doing it EVERY year from 1992 to 2001 was 24 people.
Whoever said by more clocks..
That would be nice, BUT they cost like 1000 bucks a piece..chronomix dosen't make clocks anymore and when they break nobody can fix themmm
the digital clock (cd lights) I bought broke in 3 months!
(DO NOT BY CLOCKS FROM "ELECTRO-NUMERICS")
I put entry fee races in my hometown for the same amount of time..a half marathon.
The most I had were 248 entrants.
One observation, if you go too dep in the age groups, runners think it's a joke.
The best average times per age group that I had were when I just had 3 awards per age group, but they were nice.
Runners really do like the gold, silver, bronze type aspect to their racing.
One guy would not even come up when I called out his name for 6th in one age group when I did the "lots of awards" thing.
I put on this free "one hour" race once on our high school track...hired a computerized results guy out of my own pocket advertised as best as I could for a long time...3 guys showed up...but one of them was Jordan Fife..so that at least was a small victory-ha.
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I'd like to be in a masters-only race once in a while. It would be a hoot to try to actually win a race.
"2. Hold the races in the afternoon. Good Lord, what a wonderful idea! Start the race at like four in the afternoon, or shit, what about SIX? Sounds great to me. Why doesn't anybody do this? Heavy traffic time, maybe."
When I was in high school, late 70's early 80's, the local summer road races were attached to the annual festivals each town would have. The races would start in the evening and afterwards you could go hang around the festival. Generally there would be a beer ticket (and flyers for up-coming races) in the info bag we'd receive with our numbers. Don't remember a lot of bagels, but certainly chowed down on a lot of watermelon. Good memories.
Just get beer after the races and everything about the race up to that point is forgiven.
I'd like evening road races, but yeah, try to block off a public road at 6-7pm in the evening... see how that goes with the locals.
Directors want more people at their races so they all give shirts and goody bags which drives up the cost. The slow joggers and walkers are the ones funding your swag.
Alan
No major marathon closes in a couple of days. Chicago was over 4 1/2 months and they sent out e-mails telling runners how many signed up when it got over 30,000. Plus its not like it doesnt close early every year,. If someone missed out it is only their fault. New york has a time for the marathon and half that guarantees entry if entry is sent by cut off date. Just because you are fast doesnt entitle you to do whatever you want.
Red Glare wrote:
You're implying that there's no room for improvement. In that case, why are you even reading this thread, let alone replying to it?
stuck with match.com wrote:I see this thread and I see a bunch of whiners. I'm amazed and how much people have complained on this thread. Suck it up people and just run the dang races.
No I am race director myself. I know how hard race directors work and the effort required to put on such an event. I am saying there is room for improvement but most of the requests on here have been downright ridiculous.
Where I used to live, there has been a FREE twice-yearly (there was a 'practice' one in the fall) cc series with 5-6 races on consecutive Thursday evenings at different parks around the city. I think I first ran it in '96 or '97. They even got together some custom-screened tech shirts to give out to those who showed up for the entire series, donated by a running store. One of my favorite racing experiences ever.
I am surprised at some of the comments here. Most of them would help the top runners (top 10 or so), but to improve our sport and get more interest, we should think more about the masses (the other 95-99% of people in a typical road race).
I agree with the comments about starting on time, results, etc.
The biggest thing I think there needs to be more of is making the spectator friendly which is good for the runners.
** The best way to do this is have races with loop courses.
Meaning, a 5K with a 1 mile loop, or even shorter loops. I have run 3 loop races in my life and they had the most spectators of any race that I have done (besides a marathon). That is because whole families get interested. It made the race louder and more fun for me, even though in 2 of the 3 loop races I had no family there (because I had no family of my own at the time). I know most families don't go to a 10K race because they only see the person at the beginning and end. Imagine the interest if they say their dad or mom run by 6 times. Kids would be a lot more interested in running that way.
Sorry, "the masses" have been catered to long enough for us to see that they're disinterested in running as a sport. Kids will get interested through jr. high and high school track and xc programs that are run well, more like a sport and less like alternative p.e. Road racing never really has been a spectator sport, no sense in forcing it to be one. Putting Sally Slogger and Wendy Walker on a 1-mile loop course for a 5k or 10k is just begging too many of them to head to the finish line early and jack up the race results. Loop courses work fine for stuff like criterium cycling races, where competitors by design are of similar ability and aren't getting lapped multiple times. Doesn't work logistically for one race for anyone and everyone.
swr wrote:
No frills races NEVER work. I tried it for 10 years. When people see there is no entry fee and it is located on some HS CC course (a great place to do it) they think it's just some el-cheapo thing that is unorganized.
I couldn't even get the local paper to advertise it for all those years.
I agree w/ this. Seems people value things they have to pay for. I love no frills races and run several every year but they are club races with small fields. Great for what they are but not going to atttract many people.
Mr. Obvious wrote:
I agree w/ this. Seems people value things they have to pay for. I love no frills races and run several every year but they are club races with small fields. Great for what they are but not going to atttract many people.
How many people should a race need to attract?
What is the record highest entry fee?
TK1451 wrote:
I like bagels, bananas, etc., but could really do without the t-shirt. SELL t-shirts, don't force everyone to buy them by including it with the entry fee.
Other than that, I've been pretty satisfied with the road races I've run.
I can say most people that think that not having t-shirts or making them optional would reduce costs are deluding themselves. Doesn't happen. First off the vast majority of people that participate in road races want the shirt so making it option doesn't cut down in the quantity enough to make a difference when you take into account you have to buy "X" many shirts of each size anyway. I done races with t-shirts optional, didn't save the race a cent.
Doing no shirt at all has potential to save costs, but when most of your participants expect it it doesn't really enhance the event to not have it. In addition, people that give you money (sponsors) want their logos on something that lasts longer than a race poster or brochure, so not having a shirt can cost you money potentially making the race fee MORE expensive.
So let's look at real economics. There's a lot of "no slow people in races" comments, but quite honestly if it weren't for the slow people there wouldn't be races for anyone but elites. A typical 5K/10K here is going to cost $2000-3000 to put on bare minimum. That's no shirt, no awards, no brochure, no ads. That's timing, insurance, police, permits. Let's kick out everyone slower than a 7 minute mile. Looking at a recent 10K that leaves 20 people, at a cost of $100-$150 a piece. Let all the slow people in you're down to $8-$12 a piece.
Slimmer outfits on chicks. Jogbras optional.
Wet t-shirt division in awards.
Invitations to iron pumping jerks from the local gym, and give them a 1 minute head start, just to humiliate them.
Keith Stone wrote:
I can say most people that think that not having t-shirts or making them optional would reduce costs are deluding themselves. Doesn't happen. First off the vast majority of people that participate in road races want the shirt so making it option doesn't cut down in the quantity enough to make a difference when you take into account you have to buy "X" many shirts of each size anyway. I done races with t-shirts optional, didn't save the race a cent.
Doing no shirt at all has potential to save costs, but when most of your participants expect it it doesn't really enhance the event to not have it. In addition, people that give you money (sponsors) want their logos on something that lasts longer than a race poster or brochure, so not having a shirt can cost you money potentially making the race fee MORE expensive.
Probably depends on whether you can get the shirts donated by a sponsor.
So let's look at real economics. There's a lot of "no slow people in races" comments, but quite honestly if it weren't for the slow people there wouldn't be races for anyone but elites. A typical 5K/10K here is going to cost $2000-3000 to put on bare minimum. That's no shirt, no awards, no brochure, no ads. That's timing, insurance, police, permits. Let's kick out everyone slower than a 7 minute mile. Looking at a recent 10K that leaves 20 people, at a cost of $100-$150 a piece. Let all the slow people in you're down to $8-$12 a piece.
So you consider >7:00/mile slow. What about everyone slower than 12:00 or 14:00 per mile? Frankly if you need more than 45:00 for a 5k or more than 90:00 for a 10k then you really have no business being at a sporting contest. I think that's a more realistic threshold for keeping road races from turning into penguin parades.
Keith Stone wrote: I can say most people that think that not having t-shirts or making them optional would reduce costs are deluding themselves. Doesn't happen. First off the vast majority of people that participate in road races want the shirt so making it option doesn't cut down in the quantity enough to make a difference when you take into account you have to buy "X" many shirts of each size anyway. I done races with t-shirts optional, didn't save the race a cent.
Keith-
Usually I agree with everything you write, but this time I don't. The race production company I work for went to "shirts optional" 4 years ago for all our smaller races. (For the 8000 runner marathon/relay we produce a tech shirt is included in the entry fee.) These races are around 500-600 entrants, which puts them in the top 10 largest in our state. By making the shirt an ala-carte item we knocked about $10-$15 off our entry fees, but then we charge $15 for a tech shirt, so in the end it was a wash or maybe we make a little extra. We have had no negative feedback from sponsors, but that's because we're doing other things to get their name in front of entrants, like an email newsletter (it gets a huge click-through rate). To keep the sponsors happy it comes down to working more creatively with them to do things that actually work for their marketing efforts, rather than just putting their logo on the "shirt billboard".
Since we went to shirts optional, our registration numbers are up significantly. Our winter 5k is up from about 275 to just over 500. Our spring half marathon is up from 240 to 550, and 550 was a sellout we could have easily gone to 600+. Our sponsor dollars and in-kind donations are up at all these races.
To address, "the majority of runners want the shirt," we are seeing only a 40% buy rate, but our margins on shirts are solid and our registration numbers are way up, so the bottom line net is strong for us. Interestingly, lately we are seeing more and more runners who did not order a shirt who see the shirt we're offering and they want to order after the race. If I can sell 24 shirts post-race it's cost effective to order a 2nd printing even with having to mail them out.
One big plus, by cutting off shirt orders ~3 weeks out, all runners who ordered a shirt get the size they asked for. Nothing worse as a race director than guessing on sizes because that never works well.
Oh, and the no-frills notes above are spot on. If we don't price our races to fit in with the local marketplace people think they're not worth it. I have put on a bunch of $5 5k's at the school I coach at over the years and turnout is awful and none of the fast guys show up either. These are not completely no-frills races, but you would think I was making people carry cinder blocks on the course or something. Then I put on a $15 5k with just slightly more services and I get 500 runners.
The one exception, around here anyway, is a local XC ski center has a summer series; Tuesday nights, $6 to enter, completely no frills not even a cooler of Gatorade at the finish. They get 250-300 a week which around here is excellent.