The name Kokichi Tsuburaya jumped out at me. Is he the Japanese runner who had so much pressure to win an Olympic gold medal that when he struggled with injuries, he killed himself?
I think Kenny Moore wrote a little about that in his writeup of Fukuoka the year Shorter won it. If I have the right name, what a tragedy.
"TV" did win a Commonwealth steeple gold.
I often wondered whether the other guys never quite got the best out of themselves because they left too much behind at Caulfield and in the Dandenongs.
John Coyle was another in the training group. I think John ran an Australian 2 mile record at some point.
Well at least we know that was the training that got them to that level of excellence. Must be something to that training look at others such as Jim Peters with similar training. Clayton, Clarke and in some ways Peters were trail brazers ahead of their time.
Kokichi Tsuburaya ran the 10,000 meters on the first day and the marathon on the last day in the 1964 Tokyo Olympics. He ran both races aggressively. He was with the lead group of Mills (14:04.6), Clarke, Wolde and Gammoudi at the half way point of the 10K. That was world record (28:15:6 by Ron Clarke) pace. Tsuburaya was the first to lose contact in the second half. He finished 6th in 28.59.4.
According to my notes in my Official Programme, Tsuburaya was 4th at the half way point in the marathon in 1:06.19. He was the second runner to enter the stadium but was passed by Basil Heatley in the last 100 yards. Tsuburaya's third place time was 2:16.22.8 which was his best time.
Three years later Tsuburaya had fallen on hard times due to injuries and I understand lumbago. Saying that he could no longer run, he committed suicide in a hotel on January 9,1968.
Just following up on the "Big Guy" theme...from a Running Times article:
Solinsky continued to log high mileage during those years. He credits his large frame as one of the reasons he was able to cope with the physical stresses of his high volume training. “To be honest, I was overtraining back then,” Solinsky admits. “And I was getting away with it. Guys in my training group have said if they did every single run I did for two weeks, they would all be injured. It’s a fact that I get away with things smaller-boned, more fragile-runners couldn’t.”
http://www.runningtimes.com/Article.aspx?ArticleID=19542
Is it coincidence that the presence of "Big Guys" on the world scene dissipated with the "low mileage" era of late 1970's-early 2000's? I believe that Mottram did some pretty significant mileage, and had a big aerobic base from triathlon training (?)
Actually i would think the opposite is true. Regardless, Deek was no bird. There is a great quote about him that said something about "trees don't get hurt." (sic)
Deek had the thickest legs I've ever seen. He was quite skinny in the upper body during his running days. He now weighs 90kg and looks fairly well proportioned at that weight.
He ran 210-220kms a week normally and for many years he hardly missed a session.
rsb wrote:
When Ron Clarke spoke to us in the early 1980's, he talked about issues related to front-running, as compared to sitting and kicking. He thought too many runners at that time were content to sit and kick and win a race in a slow time. He wasn't talking about Championship races, but races in general. His example was "So you sat on Billy Brown and outkicked him - so what?" Why don't you get out and have a go, he said, really give it a hard go from the front, and see what you're made of. He thought that was how an individual runner could really improve, by pushing his/her own limits to the max. in races, almost regardless of the outcome - I think we're seeing that happening now in USA distance running - runners, with a lot of self-belief, and embracing risk-racing in
their races - I love that!
Yes, was present there to take this all in. Inspiring. That was Ron Clarke all right - "have a go!"
Sad he's passed on now
Factoids: Clayton was the first man to break 2:10, and to this day, the heaviest. A true beast.
Incredible thread.
call me mac wrote:
Can anyone tell me the Clayton quote where he said, to paraphrase, 'that it's more difficult for a large/heavy runner to get in shape, but once in shape is difficult to beat? I was thinking about this also with respect to the size of Clayton and Solinsky. Thanks.
I recall reading that. Must have been from Clayton's book "Running to the Top" - unfortunately I lent the book to a friend, he passed it on etc. Wish I still had it!
I think Clarke said something similar in "The Unforgiving Minute". In this thread it's mentioned that Clarke didn't count his morning runs in his total weekly mileage of 80/week even though those morning runs of 5-7 miles were at a good clip. I remember reading about Clarke experimenting with 3 runs per day and of course he didn't count the lunch run towards weekly mileage.
Thanks for reviving this thread. I missed it the first time round. Definitely worth reading.
This doesn't add to the actual accurately of the course, but if you need motivation read chapter 1 of Clayton's RUNNING TO THE TOP. I used to read his account of the Antwerp Marathon a few days prior to my race. I couldn't read it any closer because it would over motivate me. Quotes like "the harder I pushed, the more I realized that the exhaustion wasn't a wall, it was a swamp that grew muddier and deeper the harder I went. Still I pushed on" still chokes me up.
Bump for a sweet thread. What tough old buggers. Makes me proud to be Aussie. However current marathon ranks are a shadow of the past...
Regardless of the absolute accuracy of that course, it is clear that Clayton was capable of a very quick marathon. his training was at least the equal of any of today's runners.
Regarding his failure in the big Games, I suspect that it is a case of a runner training hard all year round, means he is capable of some outstanding performances but finds it very difficult to peak for one specific race. Ron Hill clearly had the same problem in the earlier part of his international career - read his autobiography for confirmation of this. Ron Clarke, arguably, had similar problems????
It is curious to me that those three guys didn't consult with Lydiard, or at least adopt some of his peaking strategy. Arthur pretty much had this figured out and published it prolifically. Maybe they were just too stubborn and independent.
mark b wrote:
Regardless of the absolute accuracy of that course, it is clear that Clayton was capable of a very quick marathon. his training was at least the equal of any of today's runners.
Regarding his failure in the big Games, I suspect that it is a case of a runner training hard all year round, means he is capable of some outstanding performances but finds it very difficult to peak for one specific race. Ron Hill clearly had the same problem in the earlier part of his international career - read his autobiography for confirmation of this. Ron Clarke, arguably, had similar problems????
Ron was in peak form going into Mexico but the altitude got him.
Derek was able to peak ok when he didn't get injured.
Who is the 3d guy you are talking about?
Mexico '68 really derailed a lot of US and European runners, while throwing the gates open for the Africans. Probably the most critical Games in running history becuase of that.
mo'pak wrote:
Ron was in peak form going into Mexico but the altitude got him.
Derek was able to peak ok when he didn't get injured.
Who is the 3d guy you are talking about?
Up Runner wrote:
Mexico '68 really derailed a lot of US and European runners, while throwing the gates open for the Africans. Probably the most critical Games in running history becuase of that.
mo'pak wrote:Ron was in peak form going into Mexico but the altitude got him.
Derek was able to peak ok when he didn't get injured.
Who is the 3d guy you are talking about?
One of them was a Finnish WR steeplechaser Jouko Kuha (does anyone remember him?), who set the WR (8.24,2) in july 1968 in Stockholm. He wasn't at the Olympics, he was sick, but he also new that the altitude would have been the worst obstacle for him.