Fastest woman at Lakefront Marathon DQ'd for taking water between aid stations

Ray wrote:

Let's make this simple......who can name me more than 1 race in the top ten money races in the country that is not sanctioned? Who can name 1 of the top ten that is not sanctioned? anybody? anybody?

Not in the Top 10 on total dollars, but in August 2007 my company produced the HERC Open, a 16 mile trail race. Prize money was $25,000, not an insignificant amount but not top 10 either. Although most of our races are USATF certified, this was a production for an outside company who had access to their own insurance and didn't otherwise feel the need to work with USATF.

2 weeks ago there was a 10k in my city with $500 prize money. Again, not top 10 in the country by any means, but your original posts did not refer to "top 10" anything. Not only was this race not certified by USATF, the "10k" course was not measured by certified standards.

I would bet there are hundreds of races that pay some prize money that are not USATF certified.

"...liable to disqualification by the Referee."

"Liable" suggests that it is a judgement call. Seems like the refs should reconsider their judgement here now that the headphone thing has come up. This is looking pretty ridiculous.

The issue I see it with the first women across the line in this race, which to me makes sense to at least consider a DQ, is that her friends came out of a van at some point on the course outside the official aid stations and gave her a drink. Specifically her. Had they offered fluids to other runners, any who wanted it, then I don't see a problem because they would be providing "equal services" to all competitors. Perhaps that's still outside the rules, technically (have not read the rules for this race), but it's hard to claim "unfair advantage" if those people were offering the same thing to her competitors as to her. And it would be hard for an official to hand out a DQ for her taking water at some random spot that was offering it to all runners, however when your friends pull up in a van that seems completely different.

To me, this is how the little kid handing out cups of water or orange slices on the side of the road at any major marathon becomes a non-issue. And why I'm not reading that this race had a problem with this woman accepting water in the other spot that was not an offical aid station. From what I read, the issue specifically is with her accepting water from her friends; something that was not available to her competitors.

This doesn't seem that difficult to me.

Coach please learn the difference between certified and sanctioned and then get back to me

Let's take this in small steps:

1. USATF only has jurisdiction over USATF Sanctioned events.

2. The rules are designed for safety and fair competition.

3. Unfortunately many USATF Associations do not inform races that obtain Sanctions about the rules that need to be followed.

4. Many USATF Sanctioned road races do not have Certified Officials.

5. Many professional timers do not know all the rules for road racing.

6. All hell would breakout if you participated in any sporting event that didn't have rules.

7. Some Certfied Officials specialize in track & field and don't really understand the rules as they apply to road racing.

So where do we go from here?

1. USATF (National & Association level) needs to do a better job in communicating the rules of road racing to events getting a Sanction. I am presently working on a booklet to be distributed with a Sanction.

2. Races need to do a better job in communicating the rules to the participants.

3. We need to do a better job educating our Officials to the rules of road racing.

David Katz

USATF Rules Committee

IAAF Technical Committee

IAAF International Road Race Official

Perhaps the running community could learn something from the structure of golf about adhering to rules (or at least knowing them) and having the good character to self-report violations.

Already ran this morning. Hitting it tonight as well.

I agree 100%. Well said.

This just in: Photographic evidence shows that runners were sprayed by a homeowner's garden hose at mile 21 of the Lakefront Marathon, and that the top 44 women had their mouths open and their tongues hanging out.

The 45th placed woman had her mouth closed and is now considered the winner of the race:

Christine Merkel 3:32:00.

If that's what truly happened, then congratulations to the true winner, Christine!

Ray, my apologies, I miswrote "certified" when I should have written "sanctioned". Thank you for calling that error to my attention. After 20+ years producing events if I don't know the difference between sanctioned and certified then I need to hang it up. For the record, The HERC Open was neither USATF sanctioned nor USATF certified. Neither was the 10k I noted above.

That doesn't change the fact that HERC wrote checks totalling $25,000 to runners for the performances at that race. That would seem to directly refute your post on page 3 that states, "...And in fact, any race offering prize money must be sanctioned by usatf."

the rules aren't generally reported to runners in races (or do you get a big handbook with your entry number?), taking water outside of a station, when there are very frequent stations, is not significant aid, and it is far too long and difficult a race to dq someone for drinking some water in a different place than others.

If only the elite athletes were only cheating with water!

theohiostate wrote:

This just in: Photographic evidence shows that runners were sprayed by a homeowner's garden hose at mile 21 of the Lakefront Marathon, and that the top 44 women had their mouths open and their tongues hanging out.

The 45th placed woman had her mouth closed and is now considered the winner of the race:

Christine Merkel 3:32:00.

Those damn cheaters deserve it. I bet many of them even tried to pull a fast one and carbo-loaded the night before at a non-sanctioned Italian restaurant.

Don't be stupid. You know USATF doesn't sanction restaurants. C'mon, son.

Ray wrote:

I can see that you post anonymously, however I do not and have never posted anonymously. I'll post my e mail here if that makes the process any easier for you. Many on this site know who I am. In addition, I was actively involved in looking at course certification and race sanctions for USATF in a number of capacities for many years. Am I an expert? No. Don't claim to be, but I believe that if you went to somebody who actually knew something about all levels of the sport, you'd find that a great number of people who bitch and moan on this site, have no idea what the hell they are talking about.

The fact that your post your email does not consitute "credentials". Your statement that USATF "has jurisdiction over any race offering prize money" is simply wrong. Period.

If you truly were actively involved in course certification and USATF race sanctions over the years it makes your absurd claim all the more bizarre. Where did you come up with this idea?

The only "penalty" a USATF-sanctioned race can suffer by ignoring USATF rules is to lose its sanctioning. So they have to get insurance from someone else. With other sources readily available, were you under the impression that this is some sort of hardship for them?

But, if the Lakefront race director has a low credit score, getting affordable insurance coverage can be a challenge.

I love this thread. This guy Ray cracks me up.

I know. What a troll.