CRAIG PICKERING , FASTEST WHITE GUY EVER?

So, 70% of Jamaicans have ACTN3 and 60% of Americans. Then, if that's what it takes to be a great sprinter, then a mere 180 million Americans have it (there are only about 35 million African Americans). So, it would just be a question of having a culture in which the sprinting talent is developed.

You can't identify a small group of West Africans and descendants of West Africa as the only great sprinters because there have been great sprinters from Southern Africa, like Frankie Fredericks, and because African Americans do not descend from a narrow group of West Africans but rather have significant genetic ancestry from many parts of Africa (slaves from central Africa were mixed indiscriminately with slaves from west Africa on their way to America) as well as Native America and Europe.

Aah Sir Lance a Lot - time for a duel?

Only joking! But consider a few things:

The British record holder Jon Brown 27:18. Well the time supports your theory but best for the mile 4:06. So he got the best out of himself, but what could a runner with more natural ability but the same training and determination? But could any westerner stand the spartan lifestyle nowadays?

Next Moorcroft's 13:00 solo nearly 30 years ago! With todays training, pacemakers, slightly faster tracks - what could he run now?

Consider the top US distance runners. Whilst they are studying and training, the East African's are training and training; & at altitude. My piano teacher once said if you don't get speed while you are younger you never will. That applies to athletes to even distance runners. Imagine if soccer players tried to make it whilst going to University at the same time -they would have no chance! I know its a team sport but on technique and fitness they would be dropped.

If you got the top 30 distance runners every year from the US and put them in a Kenyan or Ethiopian altitude training camp at age 16. Then left them there for 5 years. You would have a sub 27 runner. Forget the best coaches if the system is wrong their potential is limited

It's the obvious thing to do. A couple of runners have got this - Mottram, Kennedy and look at their results. Mo Farah has done the same recently with great results (he was born at sea level)

Another corny saying from my fishing days - 'never sit behind a poor fisherman'. Well that's exactly what we are doing!

Surely it makes sense to train like, and with the best. Or at least then you could really say we are not as good. If nothing else it would move us a lot closer

stupiderer wrote:

Armin Hary's 10.0 would be 10.24 with the hand to auto conversion, right? Plus, no false-start blocks test like today.

No blocks. Period.

Blacks are faster; whites are smarter.

Use the same rationale: results.

KIPCOD wrote:

WHAAATT! Ever hear of Nigeria

Wars

Poverty

Illness

Life expectancy

have something to do with it also

Same shit happens in Kenya and Ethiopia, are the East Africans just smarter than the West Africans?

stupiderer wrote:

So, 70% of Jamaicans have ACTN3 and 60% of Americans. Then, if that's what it takes to be a great sprinter, then a mere 180 million Americans have it (there are only about 35 million African Americans). So, it would just be a question of having a culture in which the sprinting talent is developed.

That gene may help, but it may only be one of many. The study wasn't very expansive in its effect. There could be another gene or a mutation of the above gene that aids even more in sprinting ability.

If it was ONLY that gene you'd see thousands of individuals running that fast based on the % of the population that has it, yes, even in Jamaica.

Its a combination of other genes, and its obvious very few individuals have it. You're looking at one gene here, its probably hundreds that determine ability. We're just scratching the surface, who knows which one is more important.

again wrote:

Blacks are faster; whites are smarter.

Use the same rationale: results.

Not always, and not everytime.

Letsrun is a perfect example of this, plenty of stupid white people. Remember Jesse Helms? Thats how I feel looking at Letsrun.

Blacks are not always faster, Whites are not always smarter.

If anything its subgroups of blacks are faster, and Whites get better schooling. Thats the point.

There's only 68 members of the sub-10 club, as of writing, all we need to do is round them all up and test their precious DNA to find out exactly where there are descended from.

I still think culture plays a far bigger part in all this. All the best white sprinters play other sports.

science is fun wrote:

There's only 68 members of the sub-10 club, as of writing, all we need to do is round them all up and test their precious DNA to find out exactly where there are descended from.

I still think culture plays a far bigger part in all this. All the best white sprinters play other sports.

Probably it does...

If you did round up all of the 68, only 1 of them would be non-west african. Of those 67, probably 50-70% are roided out of their frickin minds.

Still, we're talking 95% dominance. Most of these are American/Jamaican or descended from New World Blacks, so that would probably be a good start. Also, most of these are part white, native american or multi-tribal mixed African from all over West Africa leading to more genetic diversity.

Perhaps this genetic diversity enhances the Gene? Or concentrates it? I think it may concentrate it in a select few individuals, enough so that it puts them under 10, instead of at 10.20 which is where tons and tons of sprinters just stop getting better.

Sorry sparkles it is not genetics.

I remember this argument when Borzov was close to breaking 10 37 years ago. I think it was steve williams who contradicted the genetic angle, instead pointing toward enviroment & technique. I am not positive it was steve commenting but the theory which i believe was along these lines,

one of the most important factors in the 100 is not popping up out of the blocks, you have to really fight the natural tendency to want to come too upright. in order to find your optimum angle for your speed you need to push your limits out of the blocks which means leaning so far forward as to fall on your face. It was pointed out that a common denominator of most great sprinters at that time, white or black was a more working class background. There is technique to running fast and alot of hard work involved as well. I live in Los Angeles, when i was running, in the more affluent areas the white guys were just as fast as the affluent blacks and only a few of the bused in blacks were fast. However in the economically depressed areas the guys were faster.

I had been a 200 man who was converted by a coach.

However i was pretty fast when i was working with a black coach from la southwest.

I submit that most of the best high school runners who are black are SURPRISE coached by former black sprinters. giving them a good 3 to 4 years head start on the white boys from other areas who can sprint(iowa, tim dwight, kevin little)

by the time they are in college the blacks kids have far too much of a head start plain & simple.

When i was running they use to say"you can't teach speed" which my black coach told me was bs. I ran a 4.5 40 between my soph & junior years, but because i was an athlete and my area was full of sprinters i gradually moved up to the half. In college i worked some with the sprinters and my times dropped by leaps & bounds, just with some decent sprint specific coaching. By then though i was succesful as a half miler/miler/cross country runner and actually had it in my mind thats what i was and i was putting in mileage and long intervals.

Years later when i ran across my coach at an all comers xc meet he asked what the hell i was doing.I was shocked he remembered me but even more shocked when he told me i was the best sprinter he ever had.

"but coach i was a miler" I figured he forgot"i was # 2 on varsity xc..."

"I know, you ran the mile & the half but you were always a natural sprinter"

Alot of other white guys who could be fast never get the chance to DEVELOP their ability because they are switched too quickly to longer events

this is the answer enviroment

lets see who is the best us marathon runner?

Ryan Hall,

where did he grow up?

Big Bear ca where the altitude is between

6750-9000 ft

where does he train now?

Mammoth Mtn CA alt.9000+

If you want distance runners put them in the right enviroment

same with sprinters

at a young age learn from other fast sprinters who ta da! happen to be black & coaching in predominately black high schools, college is too late

the fast white kids are learning sprinting from fat slow old white coaches so they never get faster

just re read my first post and i missed the part where steve said that rich kids don't want to fall flat on their face but if you are born on the wrong side of the tracks you are willing to do what it takes, fall on your face, getting scraped is everday life.

Sparkles the Cat wrote:

question for dipshits...

where are the other Aborigine's breaking 10 seconds in a 100?

If they're black why aren't a couple of them doing it every year. Why did only Patrick Johnson do it?

not a dipshit, but its because of the socioeconomic conditions surrounding aborigines in australia. note that two of australia's more successful aborigines (cathy freeman and patrick johnson) are half-white. aborigines are unfortunately to australia what the native americans are to the US - there are some programs in place now to help them, but the suffer from decades of neglect following massive genocide

Sparkles the Cat wrote:

again wrote:

Blacks are faster; whites are smarter.

Use the same rationale: results.

Not always, and not everytime.

Letsrun is a perfect example of this, plenty of stupid white people. Remember Jesse Helms? Thats how I feel looking at Letsrun.

Blacks are not always faster, Whites are not always smarter.

If anything its subgroups of blacks are faster, and Whites get better schooling. Thats the point.

That is so racist. Whites can't be genetically gifted intellectually,and blacks could be just as smart. But white people by genetics are just slower. You're so full of it.

You will be dismmissed as an old out of touch white guy.

You sound like my Dad "there are no physical differences between the races, its all environment: "look at what they eat son" They have to run away from people, they jump off two feet when they play double dutch"etc........

Sparkles the Cat wrote:

Even my questions are quick wrote:

Then why do West African countries basically suck at sprinting?

Its obviously the wrong gene. Probably a further mutation of the gene had by only a very small % of their respective populations.

What??? God this like talking to insane people. Do you guys even follow the sport? You know, track and field???

So "west african countries suck at sprinting", huh? Where is Nigeria? Anyone?

Nigeria has produced nine guys at 10.01 or faster. That "sucks" ??? Many of the other countries in west africa simply do not participate much in track and field, and have a lot of strife.

But I think Nigeria should suffice in killing your little theory of "west africa sucks at sprinting."

And yes, if you know ANYthing about the slave trade, you know that the blacks in the US, Jamaica, and the many of the islands that the produce nearly all of the great sprinters were taken from West Africa. THEY SHARE AN ANCESTRY. And many of them have grown up in these different countries in MANY, MANY different cultures and have experienced different upbringings. So while culture plays some role, it is their ancestry that is the key.

But keep coming with insane ideas on why west africans dominate sprints and east africans dominate distances, and those of european ancestry do their best in the middle between those extremes.

First, genetic ancestry testing is typically only going to pick out one line of ancestry, through the mother or father, and so be a very poor sample of ancestry (going back a few generations, the test will refer to one person among hundreds or even thousands of ancestors). The geographical connection is limited in accuracy and the AIM criteria for linking different geographies to races are dubious.

http://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/news/article/16594

Second, in one study, the ancestry tests used indicated that a group of Nigerians had 95% West African ancestry, 4% European, and 1% Native American (!!--likely has to do with the grouping of a significant portion of Asian Indians and so forth within the 'Native American' category), whereas a group of African Americans had 83% West African, 15% European, and 2% Native American ancestry. So, there is very significant overlap and despite the Central African elements (probably not even included in the gene analysis): in other words, we can pretty much identify the genes of most African Americans with West Africans. But that doesn't mean there are speed genes exclusive to those populations.

http://cebp.aacrjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/17/6/1329

Ever wonder why Brazil does not produce tons of world class sprinters?

Where did their Africa population originate? What part of Africa?