ultimate NBA dream team

Olajuwon.

Penn Relays wrote:

Look how Kobe has brought back the Lakers and almost won this year.

Pau Gasol and Derek Fisher brought back the Lakers this year. Kobe did no more or less than he has the last few years. When the title was on the line, he reverted back to selfish jack up bad shots Kobe and shot 21/62. That is not a top 5 ever kind of player. On the other hand, Lebron kept analyzing each game what the celtics were throwing at him and had his best game in game 7. Still, I am the biggest Lebron fan (besides chili pepper) but I wouldn't put him on the 5 greatest until a few more years.

Individually, Lebron is a much better player right now than Kobe because his basketball I.Q. is so much higher and he is unselfish to a fault. If you have been watching the last couple years and especially the 10 world championship games where Kobe and Lebron played on the same team, you would see that Kobe did try to pattern his game after Lebron this year because he saw what kind of success Lebron had last year. While Kobe's stats where virtually the same this year, he did take less shots to allow his teammates (who shoot a much better fg%) to shoot more.

If you watch Lebron play every game, it is just amazing how someone so unselfish led the league in points. He could easily avg 38-40 a game if that was all he cared about and most teams double teamed him virtually every time he touched the ball last year.

I'm in the minority. But I've seen clips and read about Moses Malonedestroying, annhilating an older, but still awesome Kareem, as well as top-50 Robert Parish in the finals. Who could've ever done that to Kareem, who again was still awesome at that time??

I remember Moses always thoroughly outplaying a young, but still excellent Hakeem. Heck... Who EVER outplayed Malone, before he got old?? Seriously, I'd take him over ANY center and watch him dominate the matchups over the bigger names.

ripvanracer wrote:

If you watch Lebron play every game, it is just amazing how someone so unselfish led the league in points...

I bounce back/forth on this. Just because Lebron's willing to pass doesn't make him unselfish... which is an odd thing to say 99% of the time.

So often, Lebron never works it around, but always has to make the play, whether it's a shot or an assist. Don't get me wrong... as it's usually the best option. But when have you ever seen him on the weak side, letting outside shooter Gibson & inside scorer Ilgauskas play an inside/outside game?? LOL if you want, but IMO if Lebron was that unselfish, he'd let others make some plays w/o him always having to be 50% involved every single time. And don't tell me that 14/9/2 Ilgauskas and excellent shooter Gibson can't make a play once in a while.

That's why Kobe is the greatest team player in NBA history. He allows his teammates to shine stepping into the background when a teammate wants to take the lead. No runner can lead every race the whole race and win every time. Kobe knows what makes great players tick and makes them greater. Magic taught him that. The Lakers lost to a better team this year, you have to give Boston full credit for beating the Lakers, Kobe and the Lakers are the first to demand that full recognition to a great Celtics team without any ifs ands or buts.

you must be a spurs fan to put bowen and duncan on the dream team together. bowen is not a team player either. he just goes out on the floor and hacks the hell out of whoever he's guarding. howard isn't a good choice either ( maybe in the future). he hasn't gotten anywhere close to taking over the league, or for that matter , taking over games. When one man changes everything in the game, then you consider him great.

pickier wrote:

the pistons of the late 80's were a MUCH better team defensively than this years celtics and they are said to have contained jordan... but jordan was still scoring over 30 points per game against them. .

When the Pistons won their two titles, they were a little better defensively than you give them credit for. During the 88/89 season, the Pistons beat the Bulls all 6 games. Jordan avg 27.6 and shot 44.9%. He was 7/24 and 4/16 in two of those games. In the 89/90 season, the Bulls won one game out of five. Jordan avg 26.0 on 42.8% shooting. He did get 32 one game but had to take 31 shots (made 11) to get there.

During those 2 years, Jordan avg 33 pts on 53% shooting so the Pistons did hold Jordan well below his avg and shooting percentage compared to the rest of the league.

I agree with your statement about "willing to pass doesn't ..." Lebron definitely has moments of selflessness, but most of the time he is a ball hog. Most of the Cavs players suck, but you're right that Gibson or Ilgauskas should be able to contribute.

On the semi-flipside, you get someone like Kobe who has a better supporting cast, and yet he frequently doesn't know they are there.

Basketball isn't the same since most of the high schoolers entered the draft in the 90's. These players don't learn team fundamentals and discipline, and therefore they always think they are the only "real" players out there. For some reason they think they are entitled to behave like babies whenever they don't get the ball, or the call, or get benched. It doesn't help that David Stern and the NBA encourage these behaviors.

Greatest Team Player wrote:

That's why Kobe is the greatest team player in NBA history. .

Greatest team player ever??? Hilarious. Bird and Magic were 10x better team players than Kobe is. Kobe is a great individual player who sometimes plays as a very good team player (but not often enough). This is the way Jordan was for many years, EXCEPT: Jordan was a better individual player than Kobe is AND Jordan eventually became a complete team player to match his individual skills. So Kobe is clearly worse than all 3 of them, though he certainly is great (on the other hand, the Celtics made him look extraordinarily ordinary in the finals. No one ever did that Jordan).

Sir Lance-alot wrote:

Greatest team player ever??? Hilarious. Bird and Magic were 10x better team players than Kobe is. Kobe is a great individual player who sometimes plays as a very good team player (but not often enough). This is the way Jordan was for many years, EXCEPT: Jordan was a better individual player than Kobe is AND Jordan eventually became a complete team player to match his individual skills. So Kobe is clearly worse than all 3 of them, though he certainly is great (on the other hand, the Celtics made him look extraordinarily ordinary in the finals. No one ever did that Jordan).

You know what about MJ though?? His teammates won 55 games w/o him (very short notice) and played NBA 7-game finalist NY very even in the playoffs. This was with Pete Myers replacing MJ, as the worst starting SG in the NBA.

What happens if Duncan, Shaq, Hakeem were off their teams & replaced with a stiff?? What if Lebron was off the Cavs & replaced with a stiff?? Boston added R.Allen also, but look what KG did, even though they dumped Al Jefferson? MJ VERY arguably had the best 2-12 players around him for any ring team since the 60's. We saw MJ do nothing team-wise, until All-Defenders, top 50 and/or all-stars (w/o MJ) Pippen & Grant came around, with the triangle offense that was required for MJ to give up the ball.

interesting... wrote:

Lebron definitely has moments of selflessness, but most of the time he is a ball hog.

Basketball isn't the same since most of the high schoolers entered the draft in the 90's. These players don't learn team fundamentals and discipline, and therefore they always think they are the only "real" players out there. .

This is the most idiotic post on this thread so far.

Calling Lebron a ball hog is like calling Peyton Manning a ball hog because he has the ball every play on offense. Lebron is the quarterback of the Cavs offense. I get nervous every time they come down the floor and Lebron DOESN'T touch the ball. The possession usually ends in a poorly missed shot or turnover. As long as the other teams keep double and triple teaming Lebron, having the ball in his hands creates a big advantage because of his court awareness and always having open teammates. When Cleveland gets teammates that can hit shots, you will see Lebrons points going down to 26-28 and his assists going up to 9-10. Until that happens, I always want the ball going through Lebron and I want Lebron to take the most shots since he is the most efficient scorer on the team.

As for the NBA, they are playing as good of "fundamental" basketball as they have in the history of the game. The glaring problem the NBA has is that the officials call the games differently in the playoffs (when most of the casual fans watch) than they do in the regular season. When they let teams just pound away and call very few fouls, the result is poor shooting, more turnovers, and low scoring games. As long as the NBA can keep the majority of their games around the 100 point mark, they will have the appropriate balance between offense and defense.

That's fine... and like I said above, most of the time Lebron with the ball is the best option. But if he's not a ball hog, WTF does he have to do to become one?? Hold the ball during the timeouts??

Kobe would have it alot easier on the east coast. The teams and play are alot easier. It's just like indoor track in the old days, the east was gentle, the west was a bloody hell hole. The western division is the top NBA division, and the Pac-10 is the top conference for all NCAA athletics. Kobe has the rings, and will have alot more now that he has re-built the Lakers. My guess is LeBron will opt opt and move west to join Kobe. There's nothing in Cleveland, and all of those pissholes east of Las Vegas.

i feel as if everyone that has this pent up hostility against mj are the same people that were rooting against the patriots simply because they did not want to see them go 16-0. i don't understand where this hatred for greatness comes from but it runs deep in a lot of people. i honestly think its time for everyone to face the facts michael jordan was the best player to ever play in the NBA. not lebron, not kobe, not bird, or magic, not scottie pippen or world b free.

- 10 NBA scoring titles (record)

- 5 time MVP

- 10 time All NBA 1st team

- 6 NBA Championships

- 6 time finals MVP

- Defensive Player of the Year

- 9 time all defensive team selection (record)

- Bulls franchise leader in points, rebounds, assists

- 842 Consecutive games scoring double digits (record)

- 3 time lead the NBA in steals

- Highest all time playoff scoring average

- Single handedly jumped Hanes sales by 400%

in both seasons jordan left the bulls they never won the division. in '94 - '95 jordan came back for the last 17 games and they went 13-4 to close out the season after being 34-31 before his return. Sorry, but it doesn't look like pippen was that incredible. Neither year did they make it out of the conference semi-finals. The next year, Jordan's first full year back, NBA Championship and the best record in NBA history 72-10.

Jordan was the best, end of story.

didn't want to take the court in the game winning shot against the knicks.

Calling Lebron, or most any guard in the league, the quarterback is a joke. MOST of these guys are dumber than a box of rocks. They skated through college, if they attended, with the help of tutors and friends doing there schoolwork for them because these players don't know how to work hard unless it is basketball. The situation probably wasn't much different in high school.

These players are just overgrown children who receive lots of money and attention for playing a game. A friend of mine is a Denver Nuggets fan for some reason, and he has called them the Denver Thug-gets when upset with them. These players are babied and pampered. So, they never really have to learn life-lessons, or lessons in general. They have their entourages for a reason.

The problem the refs have is that they call fouls (or traveling, etc.) differently for the all-stars. The biggest, glaring differences have to come for Kobe, and then the Spurs. The refs just swallow their whistles for these guys. Bruce Bowen is ruthlessly violent. Thank goodness the league will start calling the flopping that Ginobili loves to pull.

Kobe is the greatest player ever. Others mentioned played before computers, statisticians, and physical conditioning. Kobe plays in the hi-tech NBA and is the best player by far in the history of the league.

how could i have overlooked these points. your right, i forgot how mj would drink beer and smoke cigs all offseason and then wander onto the court every training camp and proceed to wreck the entire nba.

you are a moron. plain and simple.

i also believe the concept of stats were around before kobe bryant entered the league. therefore i think we could be safe to say that statisticians existed.