Well said, GBF. The very idea that it takes hundreds or thousands of entrants, t-shirts, finishers medals, post race parties, ect. to make a "real" race is further proof of the damage Galloway & Co. have done. If only 10 people did show up for one of our bare bones races, and all ten of them were trying to get to the finish line first, then it's a real race. T-shirts or not.
Galloway is one of the great brainwashers of our time.
Just looking at the other side for a moment.
I honestly don't see how Gallowalkers, Penguin fans, and less serious runners hurt you. They increase attendance at road races (a good thing), they buy running stuff (good thing), they support the sport (good thing). So please explain, all knowing GBF and GP, why do they offend you so much. They don't keep you from racing, why keep them from participating?
If Galloway gets them off the couch, then great for him. What am I missing here?
GBF wrote:The way you now view a race is an illustration of this. You have repeatedly said something to the effect that a 150 person race is a lesser race than a race of a 1000. How do you come to this conclusion?
The reason I assume a larger race is better is two-fold. The first is pragmatic, it's often just as much work arranging a 150 person race as 1000 and it provides a better opportunity to spread the costs. When trying for public support, you're more likely to get public help if more of public is involved.
Next, your 10 or 150 person race is a good competitive experience only if the participants have something to compete against besides just the clock. We all can't compete for overall, and everyone is driven by personal, regional, or social rivalries even if it's simply trying not to get beat by the dork wearing the cheese hat. Smaller races offer less competitive opportunities for people throughout the age/sex spectrum. Just because you can't win doesn't mean you're not there to race.
Ideally, the best case would be a race of a 1000 that views a race in the same manner that most of those attending a small race would have. However, you seem bent against the possibility of that ever happening. Clearly, though, the focus for larger races is becoming less and less on the racing.
I don't see anywhere I've said races of 1000 are small. What I have said is expecting all races to be geared towards 10-50 people showing up just to see who wins is impractical and unrealistic.
A little variety is fine, but a large percentage of races these days are the ones you?re speaking of. If $2-$5 dollar races can be done (and yes I am a ?race director?), then it is possible to have races in the middle ground as well. Maybe it wouldn?t have all the things that you like, but I think that?s a good thing.
Surely they can be done, but saying that because every race isn't $2-5 that there's a massive consiracy lead by Galloway to rip you off is assinine. I've worked free club races, club fund raisers, charity races, national and state championships and even RFTC and I say tell you for a fact that Galloway has about as much to do with the price of a race as Bill O'Reilly.
Your last point almost has merit, except you don?t know the effort that I DO spend to promote the sport. I DO spend more than half the time and energy with my fervent belief that running is a good sport for EVERYONE. In fact, if you knew me outside this board, you?d know that Galloway is someone that I never spend a second moment thinking about.
True, I don't know you outside of this board. Since the vast majority of the posts I see from you or GP seem to be bitching about Galloway, Bingham, or Runner's World I find it pretty hard to believe you don't give them a second thought. From my perspective, it looks like an obsessive fixation.
While I am absolutely all for increased participation in the sport, I do not think people need to be lied to in order for it to appear attractive. I also think that they could actually have a better experience by not receiving a water-down version that is being sold for profit. So, yes, because Galloway blatantly does this, and because I do care for the betterment of the sport, I have repeatedly said that Galloway sucks when he does this. I take it that you think he has been a great leader for the sport, lies and all?
Since you insist that everything Galloway does is a lie, you are apparently very selective in your comprehension. The Jeff I know is a honest, hard-working person whose primary crime seems to be having concern for people at the back, rather than the front, of the pack.
Since you brought it up does everyone in the Winston-Salem Track Club use their measuring devices in the way you suggested that GP use his? Also, I am not sure of the logic used when you called GP dickless and then proceeded to say that he probably wouldn?t know how to measure his own. Well, duh. If GP is female (or has been castrated), then what would he have to measure?
I was trying to give she/he/it the benefit of the doubt. While from all written indications GP seems like a bitter, obsessive person totally lacking all genetalia, I was being kind by offering she/he/it an opportunity for measurement as validation. I would even be willing to find a link to a site on micro-biology if she/he/it wishes to pursue it further.
Of course hiding behind a moniker is the source of the ambiguity. As you found out it's pretty easy to find out who I am. That's intentional. I figure if you're not willing to attach a name to an opinion, you can't be too proud of it.
Just read through the thread. My position has been fully stated in it.
Counter Point wrote:
Just looking at the other side for a moment.
I honestly don't see how Gallowalkers, Penguin fans, and less serious runners hurt you. They increase attendance at road races (a good thing), they buy running stuff (good thing), they support the sport (good thing). So please explain, all knowing GBF and GP, why do they offend you so much. They don't keep you from racing, why keep them from participating?
If Galloway gets them off the couch, then great for him. What am I missing here?
Right on Keith.
My club just put on the 25th anniversary of our local race. It?s a 10k, 5k, 1 mile youth mile and kiddie runs. We like to think we do a pretty good job and take pride in the organization and we draw some of the faster local talent. We also try and make it a family event. We?re a RRCA club ($1800 membership fee) so we had insurance. We drew about 600 participants between the 10k and the 5k for which we charged $20 prereg, $25 race day. We charged $10 for the mile and a buck for the kiddies (no shirt). All the other racers got a Sweatshirt. Trophies went 3 deep from 14 & under to 80 & over in 5 year age groups. We printed up our apps and mailed several thousand of them. A local bank was the major sponsor. We advertised in a local running magazine. We had a finishline company that hands you a card when you finish with your time, place, pace, etc. We ?donated? AEDs to the local police and park department so they wouldn?t charge us. We had food, massage, venue, EMTs, DJ and some race premiums donated. Volunteers (about 150) got a t-shirt and a post race pizza party. We own our own clocks (>$3000). We had all the courses USAT&F certified. We needed to rent the porta lets and a large tent. It was an enormous effort involving many people. Runners in this area expect all of the above.
We almost broke even.
Bump
They deleted the typical thread but allow this 108 reply piece of crap to remain? Now THAT is typical.
Isn't it about time for "someone" to update his "Who was on the cover of RW for the past 30 yrs" report? Keith....you sure are quick to insult people here at LetsRun....your stauch defense of Bingham and Galloway could lead one to think that you are their lover.....why don't you take a long slow run-walk with your middle/back of the (fudge) packers?
BadBiz wrote:
Isn't it about time for "someone" to update his "Who was on the cover of RW for the past 30 yrs" report? Keith....you sure are quick to insult people here at LetsRun....your stauch defense of Bingham and Galloway could lead one to think that you are their lover.....why don't you take a long slow run-walk with your middle/back of the (fudge) packers?
For sure, the Babe Index is a few months out of date, but I likely won't do anything until after the 1st of the year. When I do, I'll be sure to let you know, but I'm sure you won't get it then either. As far as letsrun we can divide the work. You can vouch for the hotness and hookers threads, and I'll look after the Bingham/Galloway ones. How about I tie my entire brain behind my back to make it fair?
If I had the opportunity to take a long slow run/walk with John or Jeff I'd do it in a minute. Of course at this point a long slow run/anything would be nice, but I always preferred PowerGel to fudge. I'll assume you're an expert at fudge packing (or is it fudge doping) for the long haul, so I'll take your word for it. I can also presume you're an expert on the come from behind victory, since you're obviously tooo much of a pussy to be up front about anything.
I'd like to suggest that you shave that ridiculous beard of yours off...the huge collection of dingleberries you've collected from ass kissing Galloway and Bingham are really starting to stink.
No need for you to tie your brains behind your back....with your head up yoru ass all the time your efforts would be redundant.
Your aspirations to run/walk with those two idiots (one minute run/one minute walk) sounds like it would be right up your alley. Don't hurt yourself. Take plenty of fudge breaks....if you're a good boy i'm sure they will reward you with a couple of pearl necklaces soon enough.
Pussy? Obviously that's something you have no right to talk about.....your predilection for "dick" talk (see your prior postings in this thread) indicates your aversion to the female gender.
Take your whining to RW's forums.
My my, the little gutless wonder has really got the panties in a wad now. That must be painful. Are you upset because Michael Jackson got arrested and you're all alone now? Maybe some of that fudge you're so fascinated with will calm you down. I wouldn't worry too much, I'm sure he'll make bail.
I guess I do need to apologize though. I looked back through the thread and I realize that I used too many big words. It's clear literacy isn't your strong suit and that's surely a major source of your frustration. There are dictionaries online and wonderful grade school texts that explain context. Your librarian could help you find them.
Maybe when Michael makes bail you can sit in his lap and he can read them to you and explain. I'm sure you'd enjoy the opportunity to bond. I've tried to help, but it's clear there's much work to be done and you'll absorb better if taught by your mentor.
Gotta go now, write when you graduate. Just to show I'm not cold hearted, I've included links to explain some of the bigger words I used.
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=apologize%20
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=literacy%20
Hey Keith - Let's look back and see if we can't pick out the words of wisdom you decided to impart upon the LetsRun faithful in this message thread......
"KS.....What's obvious is you're dumb as a stump. That "stuff" you obhore is things like police, insurance, timing........"
>>>>> Hey genius, why don't you put down your redneck dickshunairy and pick up a real one? The word is "abhor", not "obhore".....or didn't they teach you that before you dropped out after 3rd grade??? <<<<<<
"KS......If you think you know so much about doing road races, why don't you and the rest of your dickless Galloway bashing buddies go put one on. My guess is you couldn't even measure your own dick correctly, so maybe you should stick to something you and your buddies know something about, like goat roping
.....While bandits are dickless wonders anyway, a few minutes with those guys normally shrivels it up even farther. Better than getting the cops after them, since it points out to all involved what miserable low lives they really are......."
>>>>> Here you go with that dick obsession....do I also detect your latent, lustful yearning for barn yard animals? <<<<<<
"KS.....Yup, another idiot.....get a kick out of all the idiots that say "ya, get rid of the shirts and the reaces could be free" or "give me a discount for no shirt"....."
>>>>> There you go confusing us with your "big words" again..."idiots"...hey at least you spelled it correctly. Which is more than I can say about ?reaces?. Maybe that is the root of your problem. We put on ?races? while you are putting on ?reaces?. <<<<<
"KS.....I'm sure the 10 people that come to those events have a real good time.....If you're putting on a real road race, I call bullshit.......You know who IS working those finish lines? Those folks you jerks love to put down.......he's an honest, hard working person, unlike some of the dorks that bitch about races........Get your ten friends together that carp all the time and put on your own race in the back woods with the banjo pickers. You'll get a great rate. The folks putting on a real race aren't going to miss you......"
>>>>> Wow, "bullshit, jerks, dorks, and banjo pickers" all in the same posting.....your extensive grasp of the English language is shining through in that one. I am intimidated by your immense intelligence. <<<<<
"KS.....You haven't the foggiest idea what you're talking about......You can't be so much of an idiot to think they materialized out of thin air. (OK, maybe I'm wrong on that point)........you REALLY took more than 30 seconds to exersize that tiny little brain of your's you could do some math........I look forward to your mathmematical wizardry......"
>>>>> This is one of your finer postings......Is "exersize" the redneck spelling of "exercise"?....You might also want to take a look at "your's"...I think it might be another of your backwoods words.....My favorite part of your posting was the use of "mathMEmatical". Leave it to you to make a Freudian slip like that and make the word about YOU. They invented "spell check" for geniuses like you. But then again it may not have been an accidental misspelling. <<<<<
"KS.....Let me get this straight, you and your butt-buddy GBF are more than willing to make snide and immature remarks about folks like Galloway and Bingham who aren't around to talk back, but when someone comes back at you with the same attitude you suddenly want to be treated with class? What goes around comes around boy, deal with it or don't open the door in the first place. Your comments about them are just more examples of spouting off about things you know nothing about. Don't run away crying when someone calls you on it......."
>>>> "Butt-buddy" you might want to take your own advice here. <<<<<
"KS......I was trying to give she/he/it the benefit of the doubt. While from all written indications GP seems like a bitter, obsessive person totally lacking all genetalia, I was being kind by offering she/he/it an opportunity for measurement as validation. I would even be willing to find a link to a site on micro-biology if she/he/it wishes to pursue it further......"
>>>>> Do all of us a favor Oh-Wise-One and go buy a dictionary.....if you weren't so full of yourself you would know that your spelling is atrocious! It's "genitalia" you fool! FYI, "micro-biology" is NOT hyphenated. I find it comical that YOU of all people would be preaching about vocabulary. Your ignorance is a constant source of entertainment for me. <<<<<
Love,
Mom
I had a race-day cost of $35 to pay, with $25 being the previous days cost. Maybe I missed the same-day information on the website, but I was not going to pay that kind of $$ and was also not about to just drive home after going through the trouble. Therefore, I ran the race as a "bandit".
I was going to leave this, but this is just too fun. You're getting stripped so bad remind me to stick a dollar in your garter when the thread's over.
First off, I will spend some time on the finer points just to help you out. I'm sure you've seen the old movies with the Jr High debate squad scene. The kid that didn't spend the previous night watching TV instead of studying makes a point and the goofy looking kid that did goes "OH YEA! Well your tie's crooked!" A sure sign you've lost any hope in an argument is to comment on the irrelevant, such as typing or spelling skills.
Next, vocabulary is the range of words known or used and it's independent of their spelling or punctuation. Hence, your minor quibble with my failure to proofread is completely drown in the sea of stupidity that surrounds it. Links for your continued education follow:
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=vocabulary
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=independent%20
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=hence
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=proofread
I'll spot you that first buck because I would have blown it on some games of Galaga anyway and this far more entertaining, but since this educational process it turning into real work, any more and I'll have to start invoicing.
See if you can follow this Mr. Genius.....
This thread was supposed to be about "expensive races". Things were going OK with that until your overblown ego took over and you resorted to childish name calling and insults aimed at others (not me). I got sick of having to read around your self absorbed, pompous proclamations so I decided to point out your BS.
It stuck me as funny that, for a self anointed intellectual, your posts were full of spelling and grammatical errors. The fact that you have resorted to posting links to "dictionary" sites is doubly comical. It obvious you don't practice what you preach.
Your constant references to male genitalia (or lack thereof), your bizarre mention of Michael Jackson's pedophilia problems, and references to some antiquated video game and juvenile movies leads me to believe that you have been living in your mommy's basement far too long.
She must be proud of you when you venture out to the real world to help organize some POS "road race".
Get a life you loser.....
Bumperoo!
JFC, This post is a perfect example of how bad Letsrun has become. Let's beat up Deak. Waaa waaa waaa! You need some decaf and maybe some councelling dude.Road races ARE too expensive, but I just got off lunch with some local running store owners/coaches, where we discussed putting on a point to point 10 miler. Buses, fees to use a school for shelter, police, timing, prize money. They said we'd need to charge about $30/person. Back to square one: cross country.Do something about that anger though...
BadBiz wrote:
See if you can follow this Mr. Genius.....
This thread was supposed to be about "expensive races". Things were going OK with that until your overblown ego took over and you resorted to childish name calling and insults aimed at others (not me). I got sick of having to read around your self absorbed, pompous proclamations so I decided to point out your BS.
It stuck me as funny that, for a self anointed intellectual, your posts were full of spelling and grammatical errors. The fact that you have resorted to posting links to "dictionary" sites is doubly comical. It obvious you don't practice what you preach.
Your constant references to male genitalia (or lack thereof), your bizarre mention of Michael Jackson's pedophilia problems, and references to some antiquated video game and juvenile movies leads me to believe that you have been living in your mommy's basement far too long.
She must be proud of you when you venture out to the real world to help organize some POS "road race".
Get a life you loser.....
The problem here is one of perspective. Some of us who have been in the sport for a number of years know that races can go off with minimal fluff. We've seen it done. However, the newbies (and thank goodness they're here, even if some are misled), led by Galloway, have no such perspective. All the've ever known is races with lots of fluff. Therefore, they think it's needed for a race just because the've never seen a race without it. They think you have to have the extras for a real race.
Know what you need for a real race? Two or more people trying to reach the finish line first.
one of the blokes I talked to has been running for 30+ years and was a, sometimes THE, top road racer in the U.S.
Nevertheless, race fees of $5 to $15 are feasible for some races, especially if you have it in a park or bike paths where you don't need to worry about traffic control and all that.
That said, however, the above dude is still a twit who has some anger issues that he needs to deal with.
Wilson wrote:
That said, however, the above dude is still a twit who has some anger issues that he needs to deal with.
It's cool, man. Flagpole Willy and I understand what it's like to be misunderstood. We're too real for some people.
Galloway still sucks, however.