Raw Foods for Runners?

Great, I'm sure veganism is better for the environment. But this isn't letssavetheenvironment.com it's LETSRUN.com That website that was linked to reminds me a lot of POSE tech and chirunning. After all, it's "scientifically proven"! By a real live doctor! So it HAS to be true, right?

Why not take a step back and look at what the best athletes in the world eat. Ugali, vegetables, tea, meat, milk.

http://www.active.com/story.cfm?NUM=3&STORY_ID=13101&CHECKSSO=0&CATEGORY=Running

areyourich:

They say that the natural progression in moving to a more & more pure diet is:

meat eater -> vegetarian -> vegan -> raw foods.

Regarding ethics, I think every logical person will agree that in considering meat eater vs. vegan, a vegan diet is preferred. It just costs a lot more natural resources to produce animal products. This is clear.

But this isn't a thread about veganism, it is about the more radical concept of raw food. So how do ethics work in the cooking vegan vs. raw food vegan debate? Honestly here, I think its not so clear cut.

The things that seem to favor the raw food diet are: orchards produce more food per acre than grain crops, trees are better for the land than grain crops, and that raw fooders are not burning fossil fuels to cook.

The main ethical point favoring cooked vegan food, which you have pointed out, is that, for most of us not living in the tropics, we are burning a lot of fossil fuels in transporting our fruit. On a cooked vegan diet, more local fare can be consumed.

So which one wins? Its not clear. It would actually require some sort of calculation to determine which habit uses the least resources for the average consumer.

So what's the moral? Well, I think it is that, while ethical arguments work great in converting people to veganism, they may not work as well in making them become raw fooders.

In my opinion the stronger argument in having a raw vegan diet as opposed to a cooked vegan diet is the health benefits. And these raw food health benefits stem from the fact that raw food is the more natural choice. Humans are natural fruit eaters; they are appealing as is, off the tree. Grains are very unappealing to humans in their natural state.

Well so far I have failed miserably. Although I ate a large tupperware full of fruit for lunch, I had an odd craving for Burger King both last night and tonight. Is this my body saying, "hey bitch, you ain't kickin your bad habits that easily"?

Yes, essentially that is what your body is saying.

The transition to raw food can be difficult, because cooked food is literally an addiction!

Cooked food numbs us from feeling, like a drug.

Scientists have measured the amount of opiates in wheat & meat and other cooked food, and its not a negligible amount (no joke).

All of this is well discussed in the book "12 Steps to Raw Foods":

http://www.amazon.com/12-Steps-Raw-Foods-Dependency/dp/1556436513/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1212500856&sr=1-1

I think this book can be very helpful is guiding a person through the transition.

Should be "in guiding". Sorry.

On Saturday, I competed in the Mohican Trail 100 Mile Ultramarathon in Ohio. I started following this raw vegan in November, as an experiment, and have been impressed with the results.

I did the race in 2007 and had a tough time, finishing in 27 hours, and in 53rd place. At that time, I was following the Standard American Diet. That was my first attempt at running the 100-mile distance.

This year, I finished in 18:40, and finished 2nd. I think around 150 people started the race, and about 80 finished.

Now, its impossible for me to say how much of the improvement is related to the diet. Besides switching to 811rv, this year I was about 10 pounds lighter, and I knew the course from last year, and I think I was training smarter. Nevertheless, I thought I'd let you guys know.

During the race, I fueled mostly with dates. They were tasting good to me. This year, I had consistent energy. Last year during the race, I was eating a lot of those man-made energy gels with lots of preservatives, and had a lot of peaks and valleys during the race.

Congratulations on the awesome finish. Whatever you attribute it to, that's an incredible improvement.

Do you think the raw foods have helped your recovery and allowed more consistent training? How long did it take your GI track to get adjusted to the changes? Did you go through a period of "less than optimal" conditions down there before things settled out? I'm asking b/c I've been back and forth from raw to vegan to better than average SAD and am not having the easiest time in the digestion department...wondering if things will improve if I get totally over to 811rv...

Atwell,

How do you eat enough food to get full (apart from the 20-30 bananas)?

Can you post a sample of your weekly menu, as I'd like to try this myself (also running 85-95 miles)

Thanks and Congrats on your performance.

livinlite:

Yes, I do seem to be recovering faster from my training runs than I used to. I also seem to be recovering faster from this Mohican race than what I did last year.

When I switched, I had a similar experience with digestion. Things were pretty loose for a week or two after I started 811rv. But then my body adjusted. I think that if you can stick to it, and not go back and forth, then things will work better for you.

Sample:

What I eat daily really varies with what ripe fruit I have in my apartment. I usually eat twice per day. I start eating when I feel hungry, and basically eat fruit until I feel full. I don't really worry too much about how many calories I eat each day, or anything like that. I let hunger be my guide. My weight and body shape seem to have changed naturally to allow me to become a better runner. Some of my favorite fruits are banana, mango, dates, cantaloupe, grapes, & peaches. I also try to eat a large leafy green salad each day. I don't enjoy the salad as much as the fruit, but I think its important.

I know some people say they can't eat fruit and stay full for very long. I think the most common reason is that they should eat fruit which is more calorically dense. For example, 100g of banana or mango has many more calories than 100g of cantaloupe. The reason why I ate dates during the race is because they are the most calorically dense sweet fruit that I know of.

Thanks for the advice. I've read the book (811rv)...but honestly, it's been hard to get the gumption to go that extra step from eating vegan to going all raw on fruits/veggies. Do you forgo all coffee/tea/wine/beer? I drink tea daily and occassionally have coffee or wine/beer with dinner (one or two drinks a few times a month).

I was talking with my fiancee last night (who also eats vegan) and suggested she read the book and see if its something she's interested in trying. I think having support and working on it together could help get over the initial hump of changing the diet/lifestyle.

We'll see how that goes. Till then, it's green smoothies and fruit for breakfast and dinner and some sort of veggie/tofu/rice/bean combo for lunch...

Thanks for the inspiration.

atwell wrote, "Cooked food numbs us from feeling, like a drug."

If you want to eat berries and nuts, that's cool, but I never melted into a couch with my senses deadened after eating some steamed broccoli.

livinlite:

Yep, now I am totally off of all coffee/tea/wine/beer. I was never much of an alcohol drinker. But it was tough for me at first to give up coffee & tea. But, I got over it.

Surprise:

As far as cooked food goes, I think steamed vegetables is the most healthy choice. In fact, I think having a low fat diet may be even more important than having a raw diet. A cooked vegan diet low in fat may be better than a raw diet which is high in fat (with too many nuts & seeds). But I still think the low fat raw vegan diet is probably optimal, or at least it seems to be so for me.

atwell wrote:

Surprise:

As far as cooked food goes, I think steamed vegetables is the most healthy choice. In fact, I think having a low fat diet may be even more important than having a raw diet. A cooked vegan diet low in fat may be better than a raw diet which is high in fat (with too many nuts & seeds). But I still think the low fat raw vegan diet is probably optimal, or at least it seems to be so for me.

That's cool, eat whatever works for you. I just can't imagine feeling numb because of eating cooked food.

Well, I think you don't notice it because you do it all the time, and are addicted to it, rather like how people become acclimated to a certain amount of alcohol or caffiene.

This is why the transition to raw food can be tough, because there is a withdrawl period. There are a lot of books on raw food out there, and most of them talk about this. They talk about how cooked "comfort" foods calm one's emotions, rather like alcohol. There is some scientific research to back this up.

These threads always bring out the true nutters in the world. I get that some people want to be vegetarians. Not my thing, but fine. Don't want to kill animals, don't like the taste of meat. Whatever.

Then, you have the people where being vegetarian isn't enough. Rich upbringing and need a cause, growing up in a commune, or perhaps easily influenced and just needing an identity or even having a couple of screws loose. That's why there are vegans and one step further on the crazy foodchain, raw.

The idea that someone can come on with a straight face and say that having a raw diet is optimal is just laughable. The support one reads is either purely anecdotal, pseudoscience or idiot logic (e.g. if you are in a forest do you eat the squirrel or apple).

If a vegan or raw diet was in anyway "optimal" you would see a hell of a lot more elite athletes following it. The spokesman wouldn't be some 21 century potion seller con artist (Tim VanOrden) telling people he is going to make the Olympics. Look at his website. What an f'ing joke.

Show me a couple of actual elite runners who are raw and I am going to take a big meat eating dump in my pants as I sit here at work.

I've discovered a diet that works for me. I only eat Vegans. I club them over the head and drag them into my basement, salt them down, and eat off them during my aerobic build up phase. They are low in fat, although the meat is stringy.

[quote]give me a break wrote:

If a vegan or raw diet was in anyway "optimal" you would see a hell of a lot more elite athletes following it. The spokesman wouldn't be some 21 century potion seller con artist (Tim VanOrden) telling people he is going to make the Olympics. Look at his website. What an f'ing joke.

[quote]

Believe it or not, there have been advances in sport over the last century...are you the same guy who believed smoking and drinking wine helped riders finish better in the Tour de France? Hmm...maybe new information DOES come to light with time. Maybe there are new bars to be set that we can't see b/c THEY HAVEN'T happened yet. Maybe we'll look back 10 years down the road and wonder why it took so long for elite runners to adapt to a raw vegan diet...and maybe down the road when today's elites eating your meat diet have heart conditions, cancer, etc. they'll wish they'd made the change sooner.

I don't know Tim personally, but what type of jacko are you that you'd come down on a man for trying to better himself? What exactly is he selling? He doesn't have any products for sale that I've seen...seems to just be a man sharing his passion. Don't like it? Fine, don't pay attention. But seriously, why the anger? There are a bunch of people out there with dreams of making the Olympics...what about all the runners who didn't finish the marathon in the top-three? Are they con-artists?

Just trying to get you to think a little before you begrudge others for following their passion in life. Sounds like you need to get out of the cube...

OK. I'm just looking forward to the 2016 or 2020 games to see all these raw athletes kicking ass.

If Tim wants to better himself fine. But it is more than that. He is selling lies. He is passing himself off as some elite athlete and how it is possible through raw foods. He is not elite. And he is making money off of this.

And of course not all the runners not in the top three of "the marathon" are con-artists. What is "the marathon" you are talking about? The Olympic Trials? I would like to see how many of the people in the marathon trials are raw. The con-artists, such as Tim, aren't in the Olympic Trials. They are the ones like him who have no chance whatsoever to get there but convince people they are on their way as though they have any sort of shot.

I have an idea to kill two birds in one stone

Go chase after something you might be able to catch, actually, no chase a deer because humans can out perform any animal in a long distance race. After you've caught up to the animal you have raw meat.