Lydiard anaerobic phase

HRE wrote:

Jeffd,

PS

I forgot to answer your second question. Yes, you would want to keep some high end running in your schedule between interval days and race days. But the emphasis obviously is not on the aerobic work as much. So you wouldn't do that high end aerobic running if it seemed like it was detracting from your anaerobic sessions. Again, the application would have to be worked out on a case by case basis.

Distort running knowledge, and distort running history.

Van Aaken died some 30 years ago. Like or not he was never been very popular among the germans or the german running community. What really matters that he references Lydiard in articles. What’s the impact of articles or references that it was more than 30 years ago ??

Actually if you go to the German Universities were teaches modern running methodology no special attention is done to van Aaken or Lydiard. Most of the best east or west german runners after the 70s – I name a few - Hansjörg Kunze, Werner Schildhauer, Thomas Wassingage, Waldemar Cierpinsky or more recent Dieter Bauman and Stéphane Franke their coaches ignore Lydiard or van Aaken. No connection with the Lydiard method really.

About the Danes. Since when they hadn’t top class runners despite the good teachings of Lydiard ? Carsten Jörgensen ? May be but he is a specialist of orienteering. By chance he did win the European Cross Country champs. No connection with the Lydiard method.

Go to Germany and Denmark to see for yourself. Ask for Lydiard.

Garderud. Yes he followed the essentials of Lydiard method. He was good, the best. But about Knut Kvalheim ? As a coach may be the runners he coaches they train by the Lydiard method, like Susanne Wigene he coaches, but as a runner what he did so special ? Of course he was a good runner but nothing so special to take a special attention.

About Mexico and Venezuela. What are the runners that claim to be a product of Lydiard training with major success there ? In Venzuela ?

In all those countries that you mention, may be one or another coach or runner still trsin sin the Lydiard method, but they aren´t so many to constitute they have a training school.

Finnaly about the Finns. Once for all.

Juko Khua, JuhaVaatainen, Ala Lepilampi, Tapio Kantanen. Lasse Viren, Pekka Vasala, Pekka Paivarinta, Manninka, Marti Vaino. You forget to say how they did all their best results, their records, their titles and how they did improve their exceptional aerobic condition. It was by something different than Lydiard method. The name that’s SELF BLOOD DOPING something that the science says it improves you some 13% your aerobic condition.

Besides where are the best Finns today ?. What about the best Finns from the actuality and their coaches. How many they train by Lydiard influence ? Go to Finland, and ask to young runners and young coaches what they know about Lydiard and Lydiard method that influences their training programs.

Go to those places. Speak with the coaches. Not the ones they were young people from the 70s but the majority of the runners and coaches. You will see that Lydiard is a sweet memory of the past on those places and on those people. In most of the countries you name in your post Lydiard training was never been predominant or the major element of success.

HRE, on almost all your points, I totally agree with you.

But I'm pretty sure IQ100 isn't Skuj. Skuj may not be a Lydiardite, but I don't think he'd be this stupid, tactless, and ineffective. IQ100 is only damaging the "case against Lydiard" by arguing so ineffectively.

On the massive Lydiard or Daniels thread, Skuj seems to be pretty respectful of Lydiard, even if he doesn't agree with the tenets of the Lydiard method. I don't think he'd have such a massive turnaround and be such an asshole.

That being said. . .

I think an interesting discussion would be training methods that have little if nothing to do with Lydiard. Mihaly Igloi was coaching world class runners at roughly the same time as Lydiard. Bob Schul, an Igloi athlete, closed his last 300 meters in the Tokyo 5000 in almost the exact same time as Snell did in the 1500. However, their training was truly night and day. How did Igloi get the same results as Lydiard?

As I, and many others, have said before, there are a number of ways of training that will result in good results. We are all very different and I think ones percentage of slow-twitch fast-twitch muscles makes a big difference in what traing will bring a runner their best results. I trained with Fred Foot (Kidd, Crothers, Bailey, Leps) for five years using a mix of Igloi and Lydiard but relying more on intervals.

I then spent 20 months with Igloi although I did not stay on two-a-day workouts long enough for a total test. I was not mentally strong enough. I then ran as I felt for 10 years relying on races and some fartlek for speed. I guess I would call it free-form running or running as I felt. I got the same results at distances above 5K using those three very different methods of training.

I am Lasse Viren. I love Lydiard and self blood

Rich Englehart of Newburyport, Ma. And anyone can find that out if they want to because I always link to my e-mail.

No. It's been a few years since I've done it. I'm always meaning to race more than I do but I haven't quite gotten around to it.

HRE:I've done your homework for you. Below are 2 posts. One from IQ100 on this thread. Another from Antonio Cabral on the giant locked thread. Please review these posts, come to your own conclusions, and then do the right thing and apologize to Skuj. (I like what Antonio has to say btw.)RE: Mr. Renato Canova: Could You Please Answer a Question About Effective Ways to Improve the Lactate Threshold? 8/2/2005 4:01PM - in reply to Racer1 Return to Index | Report Post Racer 1There are people that´s hard to made them belive in facts. With al, respect you are one of them. you still insist in a Lydiard over emphasis that actually it exists only in America and in a few located parts mainly because english language influence.Come to mey country. We are 50000 that do running. Among them how many train by Lidiard method ZERO ! Go to Spain. They did lots of top class runners in distance events since 1992. How many they did train or actually train based in Lydiard method: ZERO ! Go to France, ther´s a large tradition in distance running despite last decades they decay in international context: How many they train by Lydiard principles ZERO ! Go to Germany. How many: ZERO. Go to England (ah...that´s a english language country) How many a very slight minority that we can´t consider. Go to Italy, Finland, Norway, All east european countries, go to Morocco - ZERO, go to Kenya (a second english language) a so shor minority that you can´t consider, and go to Ethiopia, in Africa eventually just in South Africa that is done but not too much - recently i received an e-mail from a south African runner that told me that top south africa coaches don´t know who is Lydiard. If ther´s someone in Lyidiard method - that´s a short/thin minority among other training methods, go to Central America and South America. Brazil by example 170 millions, a running scene that i know well) a country that recently did produce Ronaldo Costa (WR in marathon in 1998 and Vanderlei Lima that we talk about). How many did train by Lydiard method? Zero. Now go to Asia, those who train by Lydiard principles they are such a minority among Chineese, Japanese, all the rest of Asia people. Eventually in New Zeland and Australia there are a few as also in South Africa - all english language countries and also very close to Lydiard country.Now tell me about America ? How many like you think that Lydiard is dominant. What´s the Lidyard influence among america runners. Large one than in almost any other country. Thus i come to my original comment - american mistakes they come from the use of Lydiard training. Long runs for short distant events, 100 miles for everyone, 6 week peak season. The use of hills JUST in the "transfer" phase. I don´t see that use no more...among a larger world runners community. Just in America and a few more folks.That you don´t want to see the facts and the reality (by the numbers or range of influence) or that you to follow a an opinion that´s a reality distortion that´s up to you, in that point we will never agree, but we still are friends and people that respect each other. That´s hard to get you out from your preconceived ideas. It seems to me that you are in a postion that you have an American hipnotisation that don+t made you think clear by the facts. The main issue that´s not you - that American coaches and runners that still insist in your point of view and they don´t improve. And the results thet are there. For such a large population and so many interest for all athletics you did poor results in distance running evenst that what we may expect. In my opinion this have to do with the use of wrong training concepts.

Without a doubt, this is going to be the thread of the year 2008. Carry on.......

sound familiar? wrote:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_

(Enneagram)

Charisma is what i guess Lydiard he does. Charisma that’s a type of disambiguation also.

But Lydiardism they don’t. I don’t think so.

craig, thank you for your contributions to this thread. it has been annoying that so much of the subject has been useless spouting from the keyboard rather than helpful, progressive discussion.

to many of you, if you don't like lydiard or understand his place in the evolution of training that is ok. but please stop the pathetic bashing of other people who do believe in his method by their friendship with arthur. nobby (who has stayed out of this for the most part) and HRE (rich) learned directly from arthur. he taught them his method. again, if you don't like arthur, fine, just do YOUR thing. i can not understand how this trolling is respectful and helpful to our sport.

craig, you, rich and i should meet at mary ann's on derry's main street and have breakfast and talk about the sport we love. i am certain it would be a positive talk. say hi to pete for me when you get back to KSC, he does a great job.

Why would AC openly post on that other thread but post anonymously on this one? Answer: he wouldn't. IQ100 is not AC, but rather someone trying to fool the uninitiated.

Those who have been around letsrun for some time will recognize this modus operandi. This troll, correctly identified by earlier posters, attempts to deflect attention from himself by posting under a variey of pseudonyms. He doesn't have the cahones to use his (stolen) registered name. SacK Up, Jack!

Thanks, chadwick- that's mostly the reason I chose Keene. I can get a teaching degree most anywhere, but Peter Thomas only coaches at one school.

Looks like a lot of our posts got deleted. . .hmm.

CraigMac4h wrote:

Looks like a lot of our posts got deleted. . .hmm.

Der Skujee strikes again!

One more contribute to understand the Lydiard cult.

http://www.bunnhill.com/BobHodge/Special/LydiardResponses.htm

Nobby wrote:

Hi. Nobby again. Just to make things a little more clear. I'm co-founder and one of executive directors of Lydiard Foundation. My partner is Lorraine Moller. I put together that presentation that many of you are complaining with Arthur Lydiard before his last lecture tour in 2004; page by page. Later we added more to explain things more clearly; and before we made it public, we went through two of our honorary advisory staffs: Peter Snell and Dave Martin. Any of the complains and accusations you may have, we'll make sure we'll do the same (of course, we can't go through Arthur any more; but that's probably good for you, whoever you might be).

Hi Nobby. I have never corresponded with you up to this point. First of I'm sorry I wasn't able to make it to your presentation here in Victoria, B.C.

I'm wondering why you are bothering to answer such moronic crapola posted by one or two knowitalls. By the by, everyone; Skuj does not post on this forum any more!!

I have not lurked here for week or so. But last night I went through the Lydiard/Daniels thread to look for any "Cultish" behaviour from the main contributors.

All I found was helpful information that explained what AL was trying to put across.

So, to get away from the "Troll Cult" on here I have decided that if I want to know anything from the "Lydiardites" I will contact one or all of them directly as I have done so already.

I am sure that Arthur Lydiard survived many "bashings" in his time and I believe that his name will survive this crap from IQ100.

Beach Boys forever !!!!!

wondering wrote:

Why would AC openly post on that other thread but post anonymously on this one? Answer: he wouldn't. IQ100 is not AC, but rather someone trying to fool the uninitiated.

Those who have been around letsrun for some time will recognize this modus operandi. This troll, correctly identified by earlier posters, attempts to deflect attention from himself by posting under a variey of pseudonyms. He doesn't have the cahones to use his (stolen) registered name. SacK Up, Jack!

Welcome to this thread, running dogg.

Lydiard cult Interpreted – part 1

http://www.bunnhill.com/BobHodge/Special/LydiardResponses.htm

NOBBY HASHIZUME: Comments in commas

John Molvar: Author original & rebuttal CAPITAL LETTERS

START OF PART 1

John Molvar:I believe Lydiard's methods are the ultimate way to train

NOBBY HASHIZUME: (so far so good)

END OF PART 1

What? How can both agree if after read it we realise they both disagree in many issues of Lydiard training interpretation ?

How it´s possible that 2 different training conclusions about the same training method shall both be good or perfect as well indeed ? Yes it does. The only requirement is that both consider Lydiard as a cult.

Lydiard Interpreted – part 2

http://www.bunnhill.com/BobHodge/Special/LydiardResponses.htm

NOBBY HASHIZUME: Comments in commas

John Molvar: Author original & rebuttal CAPITAL LETTER

PART 2

John Molvar: However, Lydiard is not very good at explaining his methods in my opinion. You will often read about how a coach has studied Lydiard's methods for years. That is because his books and his lectures do not clearly explain his system. You have to read several of them to get the full picture. I have read 4 of his books and 7 books about people who have studied and used his methods NOBBY HASHIZUME: (I'm curious to know who;

John Molvar rebuttal:

RUN TO THE TOP – LYDIARD 1962

RUNNING THE LYDIARD WAY – LYDIARD 1978

RUNNING WITH LYDIARD – LYDIARD 1984

RUNNING TO THE TOP – LYDIARD 1995

NO BUGLES, NO DRUMS – SNELL 1965

A CLEAN PAIR OF HEELS – HALBERG 1963

GOLD’S AREN’T EASY TO COME BY – DICK TAYLOR 1977

THE SELF MADE OLYMPIAN – DAWS 1977

MARY LIQUORI’S GUIDE FOR THE ELITE DISTANCE RUNNER – LIQUORI 1980

RUN WITH THE BEST – BENSON/RAY 1998

HOW TO COACH CROSS COUNTRY SUCCESSFULLY JOE NEWTON 1999

RUNNING WITH THE BUFFALOS – LEAR 2000

I HAVE ALSO READ AT LEAST 7 DIFFERENT SUMMARIES OF VARIOUS TOUR SPEECHES BY LYDIARD.

Mr. Nobby, you may have met Lydiard personally, but I assure you I have read more books by Lydiard and more books by people who have successfully used Lydiard’s methods than you. I am not trying to slight you, I am just stating a fact. NOBBY HASHIZUME: :(for example, might reflect the Lydiard but I don't think he follows it at all.)

END OF PART 2

What ? Jack Daniels might reflect the Lydiard ? Where ? Jack Daniels Lydiard coach ? And about Joe Vigil, Mark Wetmore, Bill Squires ? Perhaps they are Lydiard. The willing to prove that most of the wold follows Lydiard he may consider that JD might reflect the Lydiard. Where is the evidence ? The all inclusive process as part of the cult.