Georgetown

I say athlete's should be able to stop, hook up a ham sammich right quick, check his myspace account, peddle some WMD or spiderbags, then get back in the race. I'm JS is all.

So? wrote:

Disagree completely. This is absolutely what is right about letsrun. Of course you can't assume absolute credibility for posters on here because they are anonymous. But it is a forum for discussing our sport--and the performance of the Hoyas at Nats obviously has a alot of buzz and is discussion-worthy. BTW, these rumors were circulating before results were posted. Obviously the NCAA rules govern here, but the facts that seem to be clear--2 DNFs and a third who would have preferred to DNF and had to be berated into continuing in the NCAA championship--are enough IMO to conclude that this should be a major embarassment for Henner and the program. It only gets worse if Taye left the course and Henner knew/or should have known that the rules precluded him from returning and finishing but he directed him to do so anyway.

Yep, dubious specualtion is what's right about letsrun. You got it man. As for the facts being clear, you are basing the facts on the anonymous posters who more than likely have an agenda. Note your use of the word "berated."

Somone has finally posted the actually rules, I see. Only took three pages of mindless speculation.

To repeat, this is everything thats wrong with letsrun. I never said the episode couldn't be discussed. But it should be discussed in an intelligent way, where assumptions don't lead the way, and character assassinations occur when the facts are still murky.

But hey. That's what you get with anonymous posting.

He was interviewed by race officials after completing the course. Obviously they were satisfied with what they found out.

xxxx wrote:

bow wow wrote:

118 RULE 8/CROSS COUNTRY

SECTION 9. Disqualification

The referee, after consulting with the appropriate officials, shall disqualify

a competitor who:

a. Gains an advantage by failing to complete the prescribed course that is

defined by a legal marking system;

.

Clearly Taye "failed to complete the prescribed course that is defined by a legal marking system", unless the prescibed course allows for aimless wandering around the infield.

I guess the question would be: do you consider him to have gained an advantage?

I didn't see it, but I also heard people directly after the race saying he didn't finish inner loop #3, which would make this whole debate moot.

It sounds like the intent of the rule is to limit an athlete from gaining an advantage. It is hard to justify that the guy who got last gained an advantage by going on a walkabout. In addition, if he did enter the course in the same spot than he indeed did complete the prescribed course, it doesnt say you cant take a time out.

If he didnt run a loop, then he did gain an advantage, that being that he ran less and was able to finish a race that he otherwise might not have, but I wasnt there, I cant attest to that.

so you post the rules, admit that georgetown violated no ncaa bylaw, and still have that letsrun-typical temerity to object to how georgetown handled it as well as feel that it's some black eye to henner and the hoyas?

unless someone truly intimate with the situation pipes in, i'm going to assume you know very little on what happened and are relying on hearsay (as are most here, including myself), yet have no problems being wrong and passing judgment.

letsrun: where those with crushed dreams have trouble with reality.

Yes.

What happened to Roberts and Miller? I read where Taye had a bum big toe after 8K, and that can really hurt, but it's hard to believe that 3 runners on one team felt bad enough to drop out. My experience with XC teams in big meets like the national championship is that everyone has a specific job to do, including finish. What a weird situation.

What happened to Levi Miller especially--he should have finished up with Bumbalough and Debole--Roberts seems to drop out of big races frequently, but Miller would be expected to do well. The situation is especially galling since Henner left Dan Nunn, who won the IC4A meet off the team in favor of Roberts--really an insane situation all around.

Ayalew Taye (FR) was knocked down hard early in the race and in his freshman zeal sprinted back into position trying to carry out his plan of running with Matt DeBole. Late in the race he was knocked down again into the fencing. At this point he stopped, then started walking and jogging the remainder of the course not realizing he was now our 5th runner. We found him with 600 meters to go having stopped in middle of the course. He was informed that he was our 5th runner and needed to finish the race. Despite Ayalew's distant last place finish he did indeed complete the full course and round out our team finish.

nospeed wrote:

I feel bad for the guys and the girls team. The girls did not do well at all. Where was Natasha and what about Freshman Sam McMillan who won Penn relays? Not a great start for the new coaching staff.

Sam is redshirting, Natasha was at IC4As, probably coming back from injuries.

In Henner's own words:

Coaches Note: Men's Cross Country

NCAA's

It was a day of tremendous, tough performances, some huge disappointments, and a struggle to make it to the finish line for one Hoya runner at the NCAA Cross Country Championships this past Monday. Our plan was to be in position with the runners that we should be competing with at the 5k with the intention of moving forward over the second half of the race.

At the 5k we were in tremendous position with all 7 runners. Andrew Bumbalough (SO) was in 50th at the 5k, 30th at the 8k, and was able to finish 22nd earning All American honors and one of the highest finishes ever for a Hoya underclassman. After a very disappointing race in 2006, I was very proud of Matt DeBole's (SR) performance this year. He moved from 70th to 55th at the finish to also earn All American status as one of the top 30 Americans in the race.

Mike Krisch (SO) ran his best race yet as a Hoya to finish 70th. Justin Scheid (JR) also ran a great team race to move from 104th at the 5k to finish 85th. Levi Miller and Sandy Roberts were both unable to finish due to medical problems during the race.

Ayalew Taye (FR) was knocked down hard early in the race and in his freshman zeal sprinted back into position trying to carry out his plan of running with Matt DeBole. Late in the race he was knocked down again into the fencing. At this point he stopped, then started walking and jogging the remainder of the course not realizing he was now our 5th runner. We found him with 600 meters to go having stopped in middle of the course. He was informed that he was our 5th runner and needed to finish the race. Despite Ayalew's distant last place finish he did indeed complete the full course and round out our team finish.

Even with a 5th man in last place we finished 13th as team because our top 4 runners all had outstanding days. We came into the NCAA meet ranked #14 in the polls so we are happy that we bested that even with quite a bit of adversity. Our whole team and staff though are quite disappointed that we let the opportunity to have one of the highest finishes in Georgetown history slip away. Make no mistake though that we are all committed to working very hard to uphold the proud tradition that has been established for Hoya Track and Field.

why would you berate your own guys if they had to drop out of a race due to "medical problems?"

what's that smell?

oh yea, it's bullshit.

henner appears to be working the spin cycle.

yeah what's he hiding?

they probably actually dropped out of the race to sell drugs and their coach is now 'spinning' the story so the school doesn't get embarrassed.

_______________________________

this whole thread had a lot of idiots making harsh judgments based on hearsay and rumors. now that they've all been put to rest, can you please stop grasping at straws and let it go?

i think the ncaa being ok with what happened has a little more weight than some bitter kid whining about what he 'heard' (as in read in the same thread)

Taye ain't no brotha, hes an Ethiopian who went to a private prep school in Massachusetts.

Wah, Wah, Wah... I stopped reading this post after seeing two pages of rediculous complaining. He finished the race in DEAD LAST and Georgetown still finished top 15? What does that say about the rest of the schools that finished behind them, much less the actual college coaches that hide on a message board and whine instead of publicizing their complaints and backing them up with their name? Grow up!

Henner is one of the classiest men I have met in the college ranks; not only does he get his kids to run very fast, he runs a CLEAN program and watches out for his athletes as if they were his own kids. The Georgetown track and cross country program is not an example of what is wrong with our sport but, a model more of YOU should try and follow.

Wah, Wah, Wah... I stopped reading this post after seeing two pages of rediculous complaining. He finished the race in DEAD LAST and Georgetown still finished top 15? What does that say about the rest of the schools that finished behind them, much less the actual college coaches that hide on a message board and whine instead of publicizing their complaints and backing them up with their name? Grow up!

Henner is one of the classiest men I have met in the college ranks; not only does he get his kids to run very fast, he runs a CLEAN program and watches out for his athletes as if they were his own kids. The Georgetown track and cross country program is not an example of what is wrong with our sport but, a model more of YOU should try and follow.

HOYA SAXA

two quick observations:

the description from henner in that note doesn't seem to match up at all with the descriptions of purported eyewitnesses. henner at the least implies that taye never left the course. that doesn't seem to be accurate.

interesting that of the two (minor) controversies from the NCAA meet that are being discussed on this board, this and the fact that the coaches association seems to have awarded one too many all-american awards, both involve georgetown.

Yes that is highly interesting to me as well. Excuse me, I'm on my way to my weekly "The government is hiding the fact that Yetis do travel by UFO" meeting.

I think the William and Mary squad from 2004 that suffered from food poisoning should fly back out to Terre Haute and finish the course. As long as they start where they went off the course they should be fine.