Some more information about kenyan athletes

Grazie, Signore Canova.

Ringer wrote:

A no one outside the American college system has heard of Steve Prefontaine.

They probably haven't heard of Dave Bedford either so what's your point?

This is only an information that I want to give to the readers of Letsrun. In the IAAF site, there is a new informing that Paul Kosgei, World HM Champion, is leading kenyan team in Vilamoura. I want only to inform that I decided that was better, for Paul, to skip the event, as for an injury in a knee, that he had during Bruxelles meeting (he ran 10000 in 27'21" with racing shoes, but finished the race limping), he was not able to prepare for really defending his title. Last sunday he ran 62:00 in Great North Run, running for 15 km with Ramaala and Jackson Koech, but not able to maintain the same speed during the last 6 km, due to a lack of specific speed endurance. During the last 4 days, he had yet other problems, so I preferred to put him in a race in Scicli because in Italy at the moment, but to send him to Kenya for next 3 weeks, tille the end of October. A defending Champion cannot run in 61:30 arriving n. 10. Top events are for athletes in top shape.

Settled wrote:

Geb struggled to get under Aouita's old 5k mark, and then is running the second half of a 10k at faster pace? Please.

What is Gebrselassie supposed to do? Stagnate and not improve at all? I just watched his 1994 5,000m WR on tape and yes it was tough, however, but it's been NINE YEARS. NINE YEARS and probably 50,000 miles. I would hope he could improve.

Going out at 15k pace for 5k and then turning it into a true 5k effort the second half is not unreasonable. It's akin to T. Williams going out in mid 14s and coming back with 5k somewhere in the 13s. Or your 16min 5k guy spliting 18:00/16:30.

Gebrselassie of sure has a MAX LASS (Maximum Lactate Steady State) very close 10 mmol. It means that at the speed of 2'45" per km (that is 13'45" on 5000m), he has a personal steady state (about 7-8 mmol), so can run UNDER the level of his MAX LASS. So, when he goes for the 2nd half of the race, practically he can run a new 5000 race, because he used only in very little part his anaerobic engine for running at 2'45" pace before.

You must also think that 10000m event, due to the fact that is run little times, probably is not well known, and statistically speaking is not possible to compare it with other events.

For ex., I was surprised about 26'30" of Nicholas Kemboi, because I was thinking about a 26'45" time. I was sure that Nicholas could run in 12'52" (5000m), so my normal goal was 12'52" x 2 = 25'44" plus 1 min (like normally we do for having an idea about 10K).

During the race, he ran two half of 13'17" + 13'13", almost beating Gebre in the last 600m (2'28" for Gebre, 2'29" for Nicholas !), and after 8 km went also in front for 600m when realized that Gebre reduced the pace.

So, as I'm sure that is value on 5K was not better than 12'52", I have to suppose that, for a talented and well trained athlete, is possible running about 40" more than the double of the value in 5K at the moment.

Another fact is that, when Gebre ran 26'22" in 1998, he was completely alone during the last 6.5K. Instead, this year in Bruxelles there was a REAL RACE, having to fight till the finish line for winning. This is an important consideration that we have to do, when we think of World Record in long distance (also HM and Marathon, of course).

Thanks for all the info. Ignore those that insult you. Don't waste time trying to change them, they won't. I'd like to have you as my coach! Have you met Hicham El Guerrouj(click on my link for my site)?

:-D

I fixed the link

The real question is: How strict and effective is the drug enforcement? I would have to say there is very little enforcement (two year ban? common!) and the testing is ineffective. So I think people being what they are will turn to cheating as a way to succeed. Not everyone will cheat, but enough will. Africans are people too and have the same basic desires for success as everyone else on this planet and some will turn to drugs. So I think what we have at the top are a bunch of extremely talented runners along with cheaters mixed in. Some are extremely talented and are cheating. This is not good for the sport. What talented runner wants to bust his/her ass only to get beat by a cheater? Since the powers of this sport cannot or will not clean up the mess, I can care less about what is happening at the top. I am just going to assume that the records and races are tainted by a percentage of cheaters and leave it at that. Therefore I would speculate that if Renato is coaching ten or more elite athletes, the chances of all his athletes being clean is slim to none.

I'm really annoyed at the two year ban thing. Ali Saidi-Sief got banned because of a positive test at Edmonton and now he's back and running fast again(7:30 3k). I don't like seeing them back, they should increase it to like 5 years or ban for life

bump

Hey!

Renato,

can you post the training of Bungei and Mutua?

Mr. Canova,

Thank you so much for taking the time to post your thoughts and ideas here on the website. Your efforts to raise the level of discussion are especially impressive when one considers both your active schedule and that English is not your native language.

I've read your posts with great interest.

[quote]Coevett wrote:

this may also explain why they are not so dominant in the 800m as in longer distances.

quote]

eh, no. As a group, Kenyans tend to dominate the 800 more than any other event.

Renato, thanks for all the posts. I have to disagree with you when you say that Gebreselassie is producing 7-8mmol of lactate at 13.45 pace for 5000m. His lactate threshold pace (4 mmol lactate)is 13.50/5000m, 27.40/10000m. Gebreselassie and Bekele could run at this pace for a half marathon on the track. Don`t reply to the posters who keep talking about drugs, they are obsessed with drugs and probably smoke too much weed which is they reason why they have these paranoid conspiracy theories. There are millions of people like them on the internet, but you Renato have caused a lot of interest on this website, among intelligent runners who understand the value of traning hard. Keep up the good work.

While one-hour race time is often thought of as lactate threshold pace, the 4mmol mark of lactate is not an accurate identifier of lactate threshold. In fact, 4mmol is often above the lactate threshold. Several studies have shown the average lactate threshold to be 3.8mmol amongst average runners, but the true figure can be anywhere from 3mmol to possibly the 10mmol Renato quotes for Geb, though that would be incredibly high.

To truly find the lactate value of the LT pace, you would need the athlete to perform pairs of 5 minute efforts at consistently higher paces. When the lactate value after the 2nd effort is notably higher than the lactate value after the first effort, you have just passed the LT pace. The value could be 3mmol, 10mmol, or anywhere in between. But it won't always be 4mmol.

So while you are right on in taking a one hour half marathon to be near Geb's LT pace, it wouldn't be an accurate indicator of his lactate value.

I don't agree with that definition of lactate threshold (60min race pace). I define LT as the point where you produce large amounts of lactate but are just within your abilities to clear and not let it accumulate.

I'm estimating Gebrselassie's LT at 4:45/mi.

Thanks Joel and Trackhead for your intelligent posts, keep them coming. My point is that the best endurance athletes produce their world records at lower lactate values, not higher ones. This type of fitness is demonstrated by the ability of the male and female athletes at this year`s World championships, where their recovery rates from one very fast race to another is very impressive. This quick recovery is not possible if the lactate values are very high. If you need further evidence, just look how quickly they get their breath back after a very fast race. I still think that for long distance runners, the one hour race is a good indicator of lactate threshold, which is always going to be a rather vague estimate at the best of times, since pace, breathing and lactate vary in any race according to the many changes we go through in a race. Let me just say that 10k is slighly above threshold (you gradually get out of breath as the race progresses.) and the Marathon is somewhat below threshold. SO COME ON GUYS GIVE ME A BETTER DEFINITION OF THRESHOLD THAN A 60 MINUTE RACE.

Word on the street has it that Renato will make an appearance to Joe McVeigh's post NYC marathon party.

wow this is amazing stuff keep these posts coming in guys