god you are stupid
do you think before you post...ever??
how do you know Ritz didnt think and do the same thing hall did at XC nats when culppeper went past him...maybe he just wasnt honest enough to tell the papers
why dont you go give Ritz shit...hes not much better, he got beat at XC nats by a 34 year old marathoner..REALLY on the downside of his career.....HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
hall at least got beat my a silver medalist at the OLYMPICS
you f'in loser
gasas wrote:
god you are stupid
do you think before you post...ever??
how do you know Ritz didnt think and do the same thing hall did at XC nats when culppeper went past him...maybe he just wasnt honest enough to tell the papers
why dont you go give Ritz shit...hes not much better, he got beat at XC nats by a 34 year old marathoner..REALLY on the downside of his career.....HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
hall at least got beat my a silver medalist at the OLYMPICS
you f'in loser
1) Don't know what people think until they say it out loud. If Ritz said the same thing, I'd say he was in trouble too. He didn't say the defeatist thing. Hall did. Gotta present yourself as having a heart of a lion all the time. His comment just gives more confidence to anyone who races him down the line -- it would for me if I were an elite runner. Shows he's a emotional runner, and those can be messed with. Ritz has shown to have the heart of a lion. Hall has the heart of a wuss.
2) This thread isn't about Ritz anyway. It's about Hall. Just because Hall deserves some slamming (and he does) what does that have to do with Ritz at all?
3) Again for at least the 4th time, I don't care that Hall lost -- he's allowed to. He could have lost to Joe Smith from Indianapolis for all I care. Bad races happen. He though revealed himself to be a wuss (at least on that day) when he explained his reasoning for not winning.
you f-in loser
why dont you become a pro if you have so much "heart"
oh thats right...you only have the heart to bash runners
go enjoy your weekend 5k
f-in loser
This is the most tired and ridiculous argument on let's run when a fan of the sport is critical of a professional runner. We're not allowed to criticize someone unless we can run faster than them. With this logic football fans would not be able to criticize Peyton Manning until they could make an NFL team and throw more touchdowns then him. Hoop fans don't think Carmello is playing enough defense? Shut up until you can beat him one on one. Not pleased with A-Rod's performance in the playoffs? Silence until you earn the World Series MVP! You get the picture.Attitudes like this will keep this sport as small time and out of the mainstream.
gasas wrote:
you f-in loser
why dont you become a pro if you have so much "heart"
oh thats right...you only have the heart to bash runners
go enjoy your weekend 5k
f-in loser
gasas wrote:
you f-in loser
why dont you become a pro if you have so much "heart"
oh thats right...you only have the heart to bash runners
go enjoy your weekend 5k
f-in loser
1) I never said I had the heart of a lion, only that Hall didn't.
2) Even if I had the heart of a lion (which I might or might not), I don't have the talent to be a nationally elite runner -- not now at age 40 and not ever.
3) I have no 5ks planned at the moment nor any races at all. I am considering the Texas Independence Relay though --
http://www.texasindependencerelay.com.
4) I give praise when due (like when I praised Hall for his half marathon earlier) and give the hard truth when necessary (like when Hall wussed out by saying he was not "excited" this past weekend). I don't look for ways to bash runners. I have no emotional attachment one way or the other to any of them. They are simply good or bad, right or wrong on any given day, and I sometimes comment on that.
You are going to be sorely disappointed in Hall's performances from here on out unless he changes his attitude though. It's not like this is a one-time thing with him either. I've pointed out since his very early days at Stanford that he's very inconsistent and he rarely strings two decent runs together. This recent comment of his makes me realize the reason for it is that he's a head case. He's got amazing talent, so I hope he gets ahold of this serious weakness in his arsenal.
See....I agree with flagpole.....hall is kinda soft...has up and down races.....I just HATE flagpoles bias remarks to hall and not to Ritz.
he bashes hall and downgrades his talent every chance he gets...but you NEVER see him bash Ritz...when ritz has been running was worse than hall
I just want him to be fair...and for that he is a f-in loser...and the last poster was prob flagpole under a different name so f u to.
Wow!!! That list shows me that the men of the 80's and 90's were animals!!! Appears on paper that the USA men were better before they were paid to live in high altitude condos and just train. ??? Maybe Ritz and Hall would be world class if they lived more like Curp and Shorter. Ritz should stay in FL and start law school. Just a thought...
Please people, leave Willy alone. This is what he wants. We shouldn't even take the time to respond to him until Ritz runs under 13:00 as he predicted 3 years ago.
Flagpole Willy wrote:
Hard to believe because he is already within 27 seconds of that time, has shown to have at least as much talent as the great Bob Kennedy, and I would argue that he has even more determination. Ritz will one day (and soon) hold the American Record for 5,000 meters, and that as we know is sub 13 minutes.
This shows how much stock you should put in FPW's opinion. Now let's all let this thread die.
gasas wrote:
See....I agree with flagpole.....hall is kinda soft...has up and down races.....I just HATE flagpoles bias remarks to hall and not to Ritz.
he bashes hall and downgrades his talent every chance he gets...but you NEVER see him bash Ritz...when ritz has been running was worse than hall
I just want him to be fair...and for that he is a f-in loser...and the last poster was prob flagpole under a different name so f u to.
Dude, here's the thing, go ahead and criticize all you want, but at least be accurate. I've said several times in this thread alone that Hall has "amazing talent". So, I am hardly "downgrading" his talent. I've done exactly the opposite. It's his horrible attitude that I've been harping on. His TALENT is not changeable. His attitude is.
fan of the sport wrote:
This is the most tired and ridiculous argument on let's run when a fan of the sport is critical of a professional runner. We're not allowed to criticize someone unless we can run faster than them.
The point is not that you or FPW needs to run faster than Hall to criticize. The questionable behavior is talking out of your ass on subjects for which you have no basis for rationale thought.
In this case, FPW not only feels he can fully psychoanalyze Ryan Hall from one quote in the paper, but he also somehow believes he has the insight to understand exactly what mental attributes are REQUIRED to succeed in international racing. Of course it is easier to state that certain traits are desirable, but this turd is spouting off that due to psychological deficiencies (that are speculative at best) that Hall will NEVER climb the podium at a major event. Talk about hubris.
While putting up performances that seem superhuman to most on this board, all these athletes we follow are, in fact human. They try their best to succeed with whatever they bring to the table. I am certain that none are beyond self doubt and that all have experienced weakness in a race as much as they have in their personal lives. Arguing that ultimate success requires this "perfect mindset" is misguided. The surprising part is that some of you see this or any other perceived imperfection as reason to scorn them. WTF? They did something to you?
I can see that when you're a Red Sox fan that you're going to hate the Yankees as a team, and most of their players. That's how the game works. And while I am guilty of that bias with sports teams, for the life of me I can't see how anyone would carry over that sort of vitriol into this sport.
After reading Sub 4, it bacame pretty clear to me that Webb's head is quite often going to get in the way of
his performances. And I don't mean that his large cranium will physically impede his running, but that he has the ability to think his way out of optimal performance. So what, do I need to heep scorn on him for that. No? Even not being a Webb "fan" I love to see him do well. This essentially human part of him is what he brings to the starting line every time. It's part of the struggle that defines sport. You may be battling superior opponents or you may be battling yourself, but there is an internal and an external component to each race, and without that, where would the fun be?
Every athlete has an achilles heel, and not of course the ones that flare up when transitioning to spikes. I think that FPW and others posting on this site are way off the mark in suggesting that Hall's is that he is mentally soft. There are a million ways to interpret his remarks. I would interpret them much differently, but it would really just be a guess, and no better than FPWs, my superior intellect not withstanding.
There are enough reasons for me not to slobber Hall with adoration. Personally, I could live without hearing the praise the lord claptrap. But what possible reason would I (or anyone else) have to trash him as a person or an athlete? He will accomplish great things. As runners we all understand that each workout, and even each race is inconsequential in the long road that is training for success as an endurance athlete. Why, therefore is there this preoccupation with dissecting each race and each quote for global significance. It's a long journey folks. Hall had a very good race in the middle of his long journey toward marathon greatness. Whether his result didn't meet unrealistic expectations due to physical or mental reasons is of no consequence because of where he's at right now.
In the big picture what does any of this mean?
Hall is the new AR holder in the Half, training hard for his debut marathon in London. He runs a tad slower then we all projected he would for 15KM, in the middle of a week where we all have read that he ran 25 plus miles at or near MP. Whatever what he said after, the real goal is London.
"I thought it was a great day to run," said Hall, 24, who resides in Mammoth Lakes, Calif., and runs for Team Running USA. "The strategy was to run hard at a 4:30 pace. I had that for the first mile, but I didn't feel comfortable. I just didn't have it. Once we were off pace, I really wasn't excited out there. No one runs well when you're not excited." Ryan Hall from the Jacksonville paper.
I'd like to commment on this quote. I have to admit, though when I first read "I'm wasn't excited" by Ryan, I was appalled. How could he not be excited? Racing like he did in Houston. C'mon! He had the whole world in his palm for 59 minutes and change...WOW! "Oh, what a feeling".
To dare to face the eye of the tiger...again!! GGRRRR! All the while preparing for the London Marathon. WOW! Life is great! Let me at it. "I dare anybody to cross the line" mantra. What a beautiful place to reside. Of course, he'd run well. He's RYAN HALL.
What happened? Where did it go? He wasn't "excited" He wasn't "up for it"? Say what?
Training must have been going well, he entered the Gate River Run. He knew it was on his schedule. GGRRR! He was ready...and so was everybody else. Speculation had him dead on for another sterling American Record run. Can the competition keep up? How much will he break Todd's record by? WOW! "He's the best" "He's the man." Some of the quotes I had read about him. Yes, he is fast. Yes, he has talent. Yes, he works hard, trains hard, dreams the dreams...GGRR!
So, what happened?
I may have an inkling. He may be just tired...his adrenal glands are probably over taxed right now. Winning is a true tonic to the spirit, the soul. Winning in grand style is a moment of truth "HAH!" "YES! I CAN DO IT!" SSEEEEEEE! "TOLD YA!" YEAHHHHH! The "Bring it on." mentality is very real.
The other side of winning in grand style, is the recovery. I do remember winning some of my races and hitting more than my goals and not being able to sleep properly for days, which of course, led to feeling run-down. All the while keeping up the momentum of preparation for THE BIG ONE (marathon). The feelings of invincibility GONE! POOF! GOODBYE!
Where did it go? (home)
REST MODE! It takes time to process.
It takes the same respect to recover from a great performance as it does from a bad one. I found that after a supreme effort race the body goes into overdrive. The adrenalin flows...seems like forever, after a stupendous run. The following workout after a grand performance can be mind boggling, even with little sleep and lack of food. They can also be misleading. I thought for sure, if I ran great on one race, why not the next? Right? Seemed right to me.Until I wnet through the process of processing all that happened.
The feelings that flood the body makes you feel like you can do anything at anytime. The adrendalin still fows. It's hard to shut off, until you know. It's a powerful feeling. "OHYEAH!" But the reality of it, it takes time to grow into the "grand performance".
It is almost like taking on a "what the heck attitude". Take everything is stride. "It wasn't so grand or great". "It was just another run", "No big deal." I'd tell myself.
I'd keep my eye on the the third, fourth race up. Never the next one at hand or immdeiately afterwards. Too close to think about. I learned to think way ahead, so as to not eat up my energy, so I could sleep. Overcoming the burdens of having a really TERRIFIC run takes time. It's a learned thing and it's a physical thing.
I remember feeling exhausted from lack of proper rest. Oh, I slept, but I woke up feeling tired. And then to have to go train..ohmygoodness...it was tough to drag myself through the day at times. There were times when I couldn't get going in the morning and be full of energy at night, hence, lack of a restful night sleep. It was confusing to me.
Ryan may also need how to learn how to handle the "wins". It's can be overwhelming at times. Big wins! New stresses. Never ends. He needs time to adjust to the "new Ryan", the "new dreams" the "new reality".
Feeling overwhelmed and tired can lead to low energy, slow recovery from runs. I found things I had enjoyed..long runs..GRR! Repeat miles...! GGRR! Running with the guys..GGRR! Would end up being a chore, something I had to push through. I had to deal with my lack of concentration which led to no fun. I had to push through alot before I learned to take things in stride.
It takes time to learn. Meb I'm sure has learned it, same with Deena and the lovely Culpepper's. Along with some of the other top athletes.
Ryan is what 24? He has time to fulfill his dreams. But running great times takes time to adjust to and recover from BIG WINS. He's getting to know himself on a whole new level. Even if he wants to be the "next big thing" and believes he can be, it still takes time to adjust, no matter how much he may want it.
Ryan great effort, even if you weren't "excited". I'm "excited" for you. You hold a tremendous amount of promise for yourself and American road racing.
It's all a journey..enjoy it!
In Joy!
T. Rex,
Oh BROTHER!
1) You get on me for saying I understand Hall's weak mental state, and yet you say the same thing about Alan Webb? What's that about brother?! Apparently YOU have the gift of observation and analysis but I don't? Dude, get over yourself.
2) I'm very willing to accept that these athletes are all human; humans with flaws, and I described Hall's flaws.
3) No basis for rational thought? So, a guy states that after mile one when he fell off his hoped-for goal that he was no longer "excited" as a way of excusing away a relatively mediocre performance, and there's no basis for criticism? I believe there is, and it's why Wejo started this thread. Hall can't even admit to himself that he just didn't have it that day. He's passing it off as not being "excited". Wussy attitude no matter how you slice it.
4) You are insinuating that I've attacked him personally. Nothing is further from the truth brother. I pointed out a flaw in his approach to racing. Period. I have no opinion about him personally other than he could tone down the Jesus freak stuff a bit, but to each his own.
5) You wrote this - "As runners we all understand that each workout, and even each race is inconsequential in the long road that is training for success as an endurance athlete." Well, I'm not sure Hall understands that. His performance is based on whether or not he's excited.
I won't take the bait from the Hall critics. I think all serious people here know better. But speaking of the big picture, is there another American other than Lagat who ranks among the top ten in the world all-time in any event over 800 meters? Hall is in unfamiliar territory for us.
webby wrote:
I won't take the bait from the Hall critics. I think all serious people here know better. But speaking of the big picture, is there another American other than Lagat who ranks among the top ten in the world all-time in any event over 800 meters? Hall is in unfamiliar territory for us.
Glad to know that "serious" people like you know better; that you know that a guy who says he wasn't excited after falling off an aggressive pace just past mile 1 has the mental toughness to be a world beater. Interesting observation.
Awesome post, from someone who has been there and knows what it takes.
I didn't mean that as an insult to you. I was speaking more generally. Though I don't know why you'd want to take such a strong stand on this. The guy didn't have an impressive race. He felt weak and got discouraged in a 15K. It happens. It wasn't the Olympics. There are no prizes for pushing your body harder than it's ready to go. Ask your boy, Ritz.
T. Rex wrote:
In this case, FPW not only feels he can fully psychoanalyze Ryan Hall from one quote in the paper
No, he doesn't. As he says very clearly, over and over, he is looking patterns demonstrated throughout Headcase Hall's entire career.
Stop wasting time with idiotic puns about achilles heels and read comments properly.
Flagpole, you posting after a Patti Dillon post is like listening to Linda McCartney play the keyboards after Mozart has just walked off the stage. Or like hearing the430miler try to articulate something after Shakespeare has just delivered a soliloquy.
I don't know how you feel entitled to rip Hall after one so-so race, but you sure do leave an odorous flume over an otherwise good thread. Thanks for telling us where your next race might be, though. That certainly was germane to the discussion. I'm glad you're not some kind of blowhard.
webby wrote:
I didn't mean that as an insult to you. I was speaking more generally. Though I don't know why you'd want to take such a strong stand on this. The guy didn't have an impressive race. He felt weak and got discouraged in a 15K. It happens. It wasn't the Olympics. There are no prizes for pushing your body harder than it's ready to go. Ask your boy, Ritz.
Well, ok then. No worries brother. I can't really get insulted. I will say though that in no way shape or fashion is Ritz "my boy". He's in a valley right now and needs to find a way out of it. I hope he does. I hope Ryan Hall does. I root for them all.