Ryan Hall new AR 57:54

Honest New Yorker wrote:

Cabada was in this same 20k race and was unable to run faster than Lornah Kipligat. That is the second time that she has beat him this year. He dropped out of Steamboat 4 miler after being passed by Lornah just after 2 miles. I wonder if he would have dropped out of the 20k if they were in the same race. What other american "elite men" have been beaten by Lornah Kipligat twice this year?

One thing for sure - you will never beat Lornah Kipligat. Does that burn deep inside?

speaking of cabada.

72 92 Cabada Jr Fernando USA 1:03:52 7:51

pretty slow if you ask me. especially since he ran like a 64:xx for the 1/2 marathon.

Why does everyone focus on Hall's 1:51 from high school? He ran 3:42 1500 as a prep too, which is much better than a 1:51 800.

Honest New Yorker wrote:

irun wrote:

Don't forget about Cabada. He went to Junior XC Champs with Teg and someone else who I forget now, but once Cabada gets back in shape, he'll be one of the top distance runners in the US, no doubt.

Webb, Ritzenhein, Tegenkamp, Cabada, Hall

Cabada was in this same 20k race and was unable to run faster than Lornah Kipligat. That is the second time that she has beat him this year. He dropped out of Steamboat 4 miler after being passed by Lornah just after 2 miles. I wonder if he would have dropped out of the 20k if they were in the same race. What other american "elite men" have been beaten by Lornah Kipligat twice this year?

how many men have been in the same race as lornah twice this year? cabada is probably one of only a handful. and unfortunately had a bad race each time. your comparison doesn't mean anything

drewr wrote:Given Hall's combination of speed and strength, I think he is looking at a lot more success from the 10k on up than Ritz is. May seem like a bold statement, I know. Remember, until really February of this year, Hall was a miler/5k type. He has made a huge jump the past 9 months.

I think saying he'll have more success 10,000 and up than Ritz is a bit of a stretch; he's never beaten Ritz that I can think of, even going back to Footlocker in high school(though he did chase Ritz to the NCAA cross title). Ritz may be the best pure aerobic animal we've ever had, and I for one am very eager to see him in the marathon.

That said, you are absolutely right about the real breakout for him up distance: Winning (easily!) the World Cross Trials and a stupendous 20K performance to go with his 13:16 5,000 from a year ago points to a guy that ought to be looking to the 10,000 as his event IMHO.

The achilles heel for Hall has always been his inconsistency. Somebody help me out, but didn't he barely break 14:00 in a 5,000 in Europe this summer? He can absolutely blow people's doors off one race and then vanish in the next race. Gotta get that fixed, whatever is causing it.

I saw snips from an interview where he says he wants to drop his mile PR. I hope he doesn't get so fixated with doing so that he overlooks his huge upside at the longer distances.

lansing wrote:Webb, Ritzenhein, Tegenkamp, Cabada, Hall

Mentioning Cabada in the same sentence with Webb, Ritz, Teg and Hall is absurd. A nice runner, sure, but nowhere near the level of the other four.

Not saying he won't/can't get there, but he damn sure isn't there yet.

20k record is by far the weakest distance record.

This is true in view of the fact that it will be broken again quite easily in the near future.

Probably again by another b-list guy.

Hall beat Ritzenhein at the world cross trials early this year. Hall was also a very close second to Ritz at NCAA Cross Champs one year I believe, and they both have the same 5000m PR. I think Hall's future will lie in the 10,000m and up as well. His runs at distances greater than 5000m have always been consistently good, while at 5000m and down they've been up and down. Hall has no fear for longer distances.

cabada's 25k record is 1:14:21. that's 2:58/km, 4:47/mile, or 14:52/5k.

hall's 20k record is 2:53/km, 4:39/mile, and 14:28/5k. i would say cabada's record is by far the weakest distance record.

Zat0pek-He whupped Ritz at US XC Nats. And he ran 13:28 this summer for 5k. Not the greatest 5k of his career, or his best summer, but I know he was fighting a sinus infection while in Europe. And for those of us who have tried training, much less racing, with one, it's a bummer. And I've got to think that maybe something didn't click for either he or Ian Dobson as far as training transitioning to racing goes. Both had a rough year on the track. If this fall is any indicator, a healthy, fit Ryan Hall is very consistent. He won the US 20k champs, crushed the race record at the Cow Harbor, breaks the AR at the 20k WCs. Can't wait to see him on the track next spring.

And as for whether Ritz or Hall will have the better career, I don't think they are that different aerobically, but I do think basic footspeed makes a difference, no matter how far you go out in distance.

Mentally, strategically, Hall always sucked at the 1500m/mile. He got pulled to the 3:42 because he JUST RAN, nothing tactical. Boy had a tough go of it when he was racing the vets at the middle distances.

Hall has found his nitch on the roads and in cross country.

Maybe he can run a solid 13:10 5k on the track. He has pulled himself out of the funk he was in for quite some time.

He is a solid international runner now.

Zat0pek wrote:

...he's never beaten Ritz that I can think of, even going back to Footlocker in high school(though he did chase Ritz to the NCAA cross title). .....

....Winning (easily!) the World Cross Trials

As others pointed out, I guess Zat0 forgot Ritz was in that race. Ritz got stomped by Hall.

wasn't ritz extremely sick at that race?

drewr wrote:Zat0pek-He whupped Ritz at US XC Nats.

Forgot about that one, but let's not forget that it turned out that Ritz had pneumonia! NOT DISSING HALL, and I have been a fan from the get-go of this guy.

Zat0pek wrote:Forgot about that one, but let's not forget that it turned out that Ritz had pneumonia!

correct:

Ritzenhein finished nearly a minute behind Hall and finished fourth in the race. He qualified for the team but appeared to be hurting badly after the race, leading some to question his fitness heading into the IAAF World Cross-Country Championships April 1-2. Ritz was diagnosed with walking pneumonia after the USATF national cross-country championships and forfeited his spot on the US team.

Pneumonia or not, Hall would still have beaten Ritz that day. Don't get me wrong-I acknowledge Ritz was not 100%. But it seemed amazing to me how after the race all the excuses came flying from those who got beaten by Hall (or from their fans). Bottom line-Hall was not going to be beaten by anybody that day. I talked to him the day after his race and all he could say was how good he'd felt during the 12k and even how easy it had been.

And I wouldn't rule out a sub-13:10 5k from him just yet.

Hall and Ritzenhein have nearly the same PR's:

Hall: 3:42.70, 8:26.26, 13:16.04, 57:54 20k (2:53.7/km for 12.43 miles)

Ritz: 3:42.99, 8:23.45, 13:16.61, 61:25 HM (2:55.5/km for 13.1 miles)

These two should almost train together.

irun wrote:

Hall and Ritzenhein have nearly the same PR's:

Hall: 3:42.70, 8:26.26, 13:16.04, 57:54 20k (2:53.7/km for 12.43 miles)

Ritz: 3:42.99, 8:23.45, 13:16.61, 61:25 HM (2:55.5/km for 13.1 miles)

These two should almost train together.

Hudson and Mahone have been the two most criticized coaches in the US, and for good reason. If they want to train together it would be important to switch coaches.

If they want to reamain on the track go to Alberto. If they see their future in the thon then go to Hansons.