Coe: Talk about Stahr and Irish

I'll tell you what... If I don't watch myself she cracks open a big old can of whip-ass on me. So, I wouldn?t want to put her with any other children right now if fear of a lawsuit.

How the hell did you run 3:37 in Nykoping of all freakin places?

Well, it was just a race...

And BTW, I agree with your comments on the Lunn runs 3:39 thread. I would guess you have competed overseas. The other posters may have a different opinion on Lunn?s race if they had to compete in the European circuit.

Do we know each other?

I've raced the big boys in the 1500 at Bislett all the way up to the Marathon at New York. And those Scandanavian meets, as well. Nykoping? Yup, done dat too. That's why I asked. Impressive...

And, no, we've never met.

One thing to remember about the 81 federation meet: Section 3 was not there. One of our officials tried to start a boycott of the meet since he helped start the State meet (the AD from Baldwinsville), we were the only section that was not allowed to go as mandated by our section.

So from the NYS meet missing were the A individual champ and Team champs (before the DQ of Whitney and Loretz), the 3rd place B individual (5th or 6th fastest time for the day including Whitney and Loretz) and 3rd place B team and the winning C individual and team. 2 of the 3 individual winners and 2 of the 3 winning teams were not allowed to run Feds. Might have changed some of those results.

Brian

Well this thread has really taken off, with quite a few familiar names participating. So happens that I recently exchanged emails with Mr. Stahr, whom I was 0 for a lifetime against (which is a bit unfair, considering that I was a 4:13 guy in HS). 81-83 was a rough time to be a middle distance guy in NYS. I did, however, beat Miles once at 1600m, and managed to beat Marsala (a rival and friend from home) on a few occassions. Of course, one of the times I beat Charlie, was spoiled by the fact that I took second anyway (lost JJ Clark at 2miles). Of course, racing Kevin Farell and Kenny Wilson was no picnic either. The good news was that Carlotti and Ken Lowry lived in other states (thank heavens).

81 states: The team loss still haunts me. We had soundly beaten Molloy the week before in the Catholic Cities, and we were confident that the added distance would only help. At two miles, we were leading. With less than a mile to go, our third man begins a SEVERE hypoglycemic nosedive, loses 30 places, and is taken straight from the finish to the hospital (we picked him up on the way home). I believe I finished 7th (Joe Hopkins won it), but we finished second, 25 pts back. I saw Artie Dohler and Tom Eikenbrod years later, and told them I still had not forgiven them.

Although racing Mike and Miles so often was rough, my most painful loss was to Joe McVeigh. The name of the game was "Jet Tails" and I was sick for two days.

Anthony Smith (Portchester) went on to the Univ of Houston.

John Gregorek also ran 27:56 for 10,000m

I believe the other member of the record 4x800 team at ASU were Pete Richards (1:47.3 Nat Record in HS before Kersh), Treg Scott, and a guy named Davis (I think). Stahr anchored in an obscene 1:45.7 as a FRESHMAN. The team went 7:08.96.

Ed Kehoe ran 4:14/9:15 and did, in fact, go on to Lehigh.

That's right on the names... Eddie Davis was the other. I have a picture of the group but not on soft copy (yet).

I've always been obsessed with that 7:08.96 4x8 record, still #3 in US history and I think #6 all-time.

I know it was in Tempe, but what meet did you guys run that at? It was very early April - why were you guys even so fit that early!!! I assume you were shooting for the U.S. record (7:08.0 at the time by Santa Monica TC with Johnny Gray anchoring in 1:44.8)?

Splits:

Richardson 1:47.2

Davis 1:48.1

Scott 1:48.1

Stahr 1:45.6

The "Bud Light Track Club" was second in that race in 7:10.14, still #4 all-time US -- who was on that team and was it close at the end?

Previous US college record was Georgetown's 7:12.62 in 1983 with John Gregorek and Rich Caton at Penn in 1982.

Curiously, one of the fastest college times in the 20 years since was Georgetown's 7:13.95 in 1985 at Penn with Miles anchoring in 1:47.2.

Great stuff. This is my favorite thread ever.

Mike, I have two boys, 7 and 4.

The 7-year-old recently went to the track with me and declared he wanted to run a whole mile. And promptly did so.

From your expert perspective, do you feel there is potential here? : )

bon,

Yep, the race was at the Sun Angel Classic. I believe the second place was anchored by Johnny Grey - I'm pretty sure. However, I visiting a friend in Michigan who actually works for Treg Scott (who I may see as well) this weekend and I will confirm all the facts.

The race was crazy! Coach Miller described to me what might happen during the race and how I should react to it. The amazing thing is that the race happened just as he had predicted. I got the baton a little in the lead. I took it out hard and settled into a good pace. With 500m to go Grey and someone else passed me. I got on the outside of the first lane and on their shoulder. I waited for 250m to go and passed one of the two. I got on Grey's side going into the turn. As we came off the turn with 100 to go I swung wide and passed him and just went for it. I didn't even know what I had done until after the race. It was unbelievable to watch, as I ran the final straightaway, gobs of people running onto the track screaming and jumping for me to "GO!!!...GO!!!..."

The following year I saw a short clip of the race on a local Arizona news station... Boy, I would love to see the tape of the race. That is one I have never seen.

We weren't going for any record but, as I recall, we actually set the AR in that race. I believe SMTC broke that record a few years later with the 7:08.0. I'll have to check but I'm pretty sure.

You asked how we were in such great fit. Len Miller believed in a lot of quality work. As a team we would run quarter workouts that prepared us for such running. A typical workout would be: 4 sets of 3x400 in 55 and under. We would have pretty good rest but the 400's were fast. We were all pretty competitive so the last 400 of each set was always down around 50. The last 400 of the workout would always be under 50 - sometimes 46-47. It was a great place to workout and a good group of runners to train with. Besides, the coach was very good as well.

Former NYS runner chick wrote:

Mike, I have two boys, 7 and 4.

The 7-year-old recently went to the track with me and declared he wanted to run a whole mile. And promptly did so.

From your expert perspective, do you feel there is potential here? : )

Well, for a 7 year old to actually want to run a mile is pretty good in itself. Right now my 11 year old squawks about having to run around the football field 1 time during gym class, although this may change for her some day. What ever she does I just want her to be happy.

I think we need to get your 7 year old on a strict diet and sleeping regimen as well as video tape him for form analysis as soon a possible ;)

Good luck with him/them in any sport they take up!

Mike,

Did you ever again line up against Carlotti after holding him off and winning the 1983 Millrose Mile? At Junior Nats later that year, you and I were in different heats of the 1500. Was he there or did he go 1:49+ in the 800 that day? I don't recall. I can't remember seeing him once he went out to Oregon.

4 x 800 METERS

7:06.5 ............ Santa Monica TC 86

7:08.0+ ...................... UCTC 73

7:08.96 ............. Arizona State 84

7:10.03 ........... Santa Monica TC 84

7:10.14 ................. Bud Light 84

7:11.17 ................ Penn State 85

7:12.29 ........... Santa Monica TC 92

7:12.62 ................ Georgetown 82

.................. Santa Monica TC 83

7:12.96 ........... Santa Monica TC 85

Yeah, that will suck the fun right out of it! : ) Better yet let's put him in road races when he's 8 and tell him he has to win the 14 and under division. : ) If he doesn't want to run another mile before the 8th grade, that's fine with me. I've seen too many demented soccer & Little League moms and dads.... and some little kids in road races where their dads scream at them to kick it in.

MStahr wrote:

Former NYS runner chick wrote:

Mike, I have two boys, 7 and 4.

The 7-year-old recently went to the track with me and declared he wanted to run a whole mile. And promptly did so.

From your expert perspective, do you feel there is potential here? : )

Well, for a 7 year old to actually want to run a mile is pretty good in itself. Right now my 11 year old squawks about having to run around the football field 1 time during gym class, although this may change for her some day. What ever she does I just want her to be happy.

I think we need to get your 7 year old on a strict diet and sleeping regimen as well as video tape him for form analysis as soon a possible ;)

Good luck with him/them in any sport they take up!

Luis Ostolazoga recently retired from the NYC Fire Dept.

He kicked butt in many Fire Dept.runs .He started slowing

down about 5 years ago when there was not much competition and family obligations.The last I heard he had a child that had serious vision problems. He has not run a Fire race in years.

Brian,Thanks for the info. I didn't know Section 3 didn't run. Our team stunk it up at Malone taking 7th in the B race, but came back at the Federation meet to take 10th. We had 3 guys from 10-20 but I was the 4th man way, way back.BTW, my high school hosted the 80 XC state meet in Great Neck, Long Island. I was just looking through a box of old stuff in my garage and noticed you placed 10th in the B race. This thread has been great for remembering NY XC/Track in the early 80s. Here are some more names I pulled from XC in 1980:Marty BeauchampDwight WoodruffTom WoodJoe HopkinsMelisurgo twinsGood stuff!John

bfullem wrote:

One thing to remember about the 81 federation meet: Section 3 was not there. One of our officials tried to start a boycott of the meet since he helped start the State meet (the AD from Baldwinsville), we were the only section that was not allowed to go as mandated by our section.

So from the NYS meet missing were the A individual champ and Team champs (before the DQ of Whitney and Loretz), the 3rd place B individual (5th or 6th fastest time for the day including Whitney and Loretz) and 3rd place B team and the winning C individual and team. 2 of the 3 individual winners and 2 of the 3 winning teams were not allowed to run Feds. Might have changed some of those results.

Brian

Coe wrote:

Mike,

Did you ever again line up against Carlotti after holding him off and winning the 1983 Millrose Mile? At Junior Nats later that year, you and I were in different heats of the 1500. Was he there or did he go 1:49+ in the 800 that day? I don't recall. I can't remember seeing him once he went out to Oregon.

We did race at the IPI meet. He didn't do too well. I'm pretty sure we were in a couple of other races together but I can't be 100% sure. After HS I never saw him again. I don't remember him being in the 800 at the JN.