Dieter Bauman is a total Deutsche Bag.
Dieter Bauman is a total Deutsche Bag.
miles ryan, how old are you?
quote: Wejo is right. The typical american system of hammering the easy days and racing your interval sessions just doesn't work.
upquote
It worked for 209 Marathoner Ron Tabb, who claimed he never ran any workouts slower than 5:30 pace on the roads, with many close to 5 minute pace. (of course few of us can RACE that fast, let alone TRAIN that fast.
When did Tabb ever claim that?
steeple guy from 70's wrote:
quote: Wejo is right. The typical american system of hammering the easy days and racing your interval sessions just doesn't work.
upquote
It worked for 209 Marathoner Ron Tabb, who claimed he never ran any workouts slower than 5:30 pace on the roads, with many close to 5 minute pace. (of course few of us can RACE that fast, let alone TRAIN that fast.
One guy. Your entire assertion is based on the fact that ONE GUY didn't do it, and he ran 2:09...
quit wasting our time
I find this thread to be interesting... I remember seeing a group of Kenyans training at my local park when a couple of years ago when I was still in high school. I swear they looked like they were going close to 8 min pace. I of course went on to do a 7 mile 'easy' run at 6:30-7:30 pace even though I probably could barely match their marathon pace for two miles.
I went on to do HRM training after the HADD thread and improved a good bit running at 7:00-7:30 pace even though I was much faster. Year later I went to college, ran less and faster mileage, and had a terrible year. Sophmore year I slowed things down and got back to my old form from two years ago, unfortunately I struggled with sickness and injury costing me my outdoor season in the end.
Now after coming back from injury I've gone a bit insane and been running 140 miles a week. Usually a long 12 and shorter 8 or something along those lines at 7:45-8:30 pace, first mile is usually around 9 minutes. Sometimes if I feel good I'll progress down to 5:30 pace over the last 3 miles. Two times a week I'll do a workout like 10x1k in 3:07-3:10 with 2min rest, or mile repeats in 5:20 with 2:30 rest, or 5 miles in 26 high. Not sure where this is taking me but I feel tired as shit all the time.
Hoping to run low 25's and possibly get under 25 in cross this year which wouldn't be bad for a 4:44 hs miler.
so what? wrote:One guy. Your entire assertion is based on the fact that ONE GUY didn't do it, and he ran 2:09...
Not quite, his assertion is based on something he just made up.
Caveat emptor: never believe anonymous postings on a message board.
Two friends of mine actually did the bulk of their running at 7 to 8 minute pace. One who competed in the 800m, 1500m, Steeple, 5000m, and 10000m at a confernece meet and placed top 3 in all and won 3. The other was a 8:10 steepler in his first year and only year of competitive international racing. The belief was that running over 45 minutes at a time would greatly increase their aerobic capacity/fitness regardless of the pace. Some of the runs would span slighlty over 2 hours long.
I would usually post my expertise here, but I avoid it like the plaque.
miles_ryan wrote:
Its really helped, with mid 50mpw and 2 workouts a week (more like a workout every 4 days) i have came from a 5:20 1600m PR to 4:41 1600m PR.
I may have misunderstood, but were you doing 50miles a week off 2 workouts a week? And quoting a 1600m time, ie thats the distance youre trying to improve at?
I'm no coach, but that makes no sense.
Derek Clayton and Dave Bedford both said f*ck slow running, anytime, anywhere !
dont do it ! wrote:
Derek Clayton and Dave Bedford both said f*ck slow running, anytime, anywhere !
Agreed. More people have run fast marathons off of little or no slow running (i.e. 7 or 8 minute miles), than have done it with a bunch of slow miles. The current trend however is to want to run a lot of miles, but do them slow. They bring up facts that are not true, such as Bill Rodgers did a lot of slow running, when in reality he did all of his non speed workout running between 6-6:40 pace. The Kenyan quotes about how slow they run always gets to me. The Kenyan's run fast, very fast, on most of their runs. Many world class runners run easy to warm up and then people see them and assume this is the pace of their entire run. Also, the Kenyans are so smooth that what look like 8 minute pace is probably more like 6 minute pace. I have seen many world class runners cruising along at 6 minute pace and they looked like they were jogging. Rob DeCastella used to start out his runs at 8 minute pace, but within a couple of miles he was sub 6 pace. Yes, your easy days need to be easy, but 6-6:30 pace is very easy for a 2:10 type of marathoner. That is just a fact. The few athletes that I have heard of having some success off a lot of slower running did not have a very long career doing so. Too much pounding, which shuffling along at 8 minute pace does to an elite runner.
They bring up facts that are not true, such as Bill Rodgers did a lot of slow running, when in reality he did all of his non speed workout running between 6-6:40 pace.
Running 1:00 to 1:40 per mile slower than marathon pace is easy running. That's only 75-82% of race pace. No big deal. Work out what pace it would mean to you and see fer yourself!
calm down wrote:
They bring up facts that are not true, such as Bill Rodgers did a lot of slow running, when in reality he did all of his non speed workout running between 6-6:40 pace.Running 1:00 to 1:40 per mile slower than marathon pace is easy running. That's only 75-82% of race pace. No big deal. Work out what pace it would mean to you and see fer yourself!
I'm sorry, I am confused by what your post is trying to say. My point is that to prove that they are correct that a lot of 7 or 8 minute miles are good for elite runners, many posters try to claim that Rodgers, Shorter, etc. did a lot of their running at 7:30 and 8 minute miles, which is absolutely not true. They ran easy on their easy days and long runs, but for them 6 min. pace was easy. Are you agreeing with me, or disagreeing with me. Sorry I am not understanding what you are saying.
Vipam wrote:
One who competed in the 800m, 1500m, Steeple, 5000m, and 10000m at a confernece meet and placed top 3 in all and won 3.
I would like to see these meet results.
Vipam wrote:
"Two friends of mine"
Who are they? Will they confirm your sub 1:50 800?
Nike Rep Glasses wrote:
I would usually post my expertise here, but I avoid it like the plaque.
yeh, that plaque is a killer, but i find a good brush with Colgate twice a day takes care of that
i do believe the ryan miles posting on this thread 3 years ago with a 4:44 mile PR just ran 4:13 for the mile this year and 9:15 in the steeplechase. not too shabby.
I read an article recently on the Moultons. I don't know whether the information I got was correct or not but I read that they train quite differently and they are identical twins. With all the physiological variables between different runners I'm suprised this is not a topic of conversation more often unless I missed something. As some of you know they both ran a 2:15 in the same marathon recently.
I heard that Casey races himself into shape and Pat takes a more traditional approach. I've heard that Pat does a lot of his miles very fast, I don't know about Casey.
Someone correct me if my information is wrong, but I think it would be interesting to hear what everyone's opinion would be.
Average marathoner wrote:
don't do it ! wrote:Derek Clayton and Dave Bedford both said f*ck slow running, anytime, anywhere !
Agreed. More people have run fast marathons off of little or no slow running (i.e. 7 or 8 minute miles), than have done it with a bunch of slow miles. The current trend however is to want to run a lot of miles, but do them slow. They bring up facts that are not true, such as Bill Rodgers did a lot of slow running, when in reality he did all of his non speed workout running between 6-6:40 pace. The Kenyan quotes about how slow they run always gets to me. The Kenyan's run fast, very fast, on most of their runs. Many world class runners run easy to warm up and then people see them and assume this is the pace of their entire run. Also, the Kenyans are so smooth that what look like 8 minute pace is probably more like 6 minute pace. I have seen many world class runners cruising along at 6 minute pace and they looked like they were jogging. Rob DeCastella used to start out his runs at 8 minute pace, but within a couple of miles he was sub 6 pace. Yes, your easy days need to be easy, but 6-6:30 pace is very easy for a 2:10 type of marathoner. That is just a fact. The few athletes that I have heard of having some success off a lot of slower running did not have a very long career doing so. Too much pounding, which shuffling along at 8 minute pace does to an elite runner.
Your point has merit. However for the hs or college runner that can just now handle 70 a week at 7:00 pace.....they can't magically start doing 100+ at 6:00 pace. This must be a gradual easing of the pace, over a period of 2+ years. Otherwise you WILL NOT ABSORB the training. To improve the average weekly pace more than :05's per month, month after month is VERY HARD. That's a minute per mile improvement in a year and that is more than most will be able to do. If you're adding mileage at the same time....as you can see 2+ years for a 70/wk @ 7:00 to get to 100+ at 6:00 is a minimum....
Yes many elite runners become really psychotic about streak running, not running less than a certain pace etc... This is dumb. The Kenyans, Bill Rodgers, Frank Shorter...on and on...all did/do slow easy runs... Running fast every time is not good for the bod.
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"Fed on dreams of hope" wrote:
"RE: How does Wejo run 7:00 miles all day, then run 28:06??? 7/15/2006 10:22PM - in reply to Dr Feelgood's Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
I find this thread to be interesting... I remember seeing a group of Kenyans training at my local park when a couple of years ago when I was still in high school. I swear they looked like they were going close to 8 min pace. I of course went on to do a 7 mile 'easy' run at 6:30-7:30 pace even though I probably could barely match their marathon pace for two miles.
I went on to do HRM training after the HADD thread and improved a good bit running at 7:00-7:30 pace even though I was much faster. Year later I went to college, ran less and faster mileage, and had a terrible year. Sophmore year I slowed things down and got back to my old form from two years ago, unfortunately I struggled with sickness and injury costing me my outdoor season in the end.
Now after coming back from injury I've gone a bit insane and been running 140 miles a week. Usually a long 12 and shorter 8 or something along those lines at 7:45-8:30 pace, first mile is usually around 9 minutes. Sometimes if I feel good I'll progress down to 5:30 pace over the last 3 miles. Two times a week I'll do a workout like 10x1k in 3:07-3:10 with 2min rest, or mile repeats in 5:20 with 2:30 rest, or 5 miles in 26 high. Not sure where this is taking me but I feel tired as shit all the time.
Hoping to run low 25's and possibly get under 25 in cross this year which wouldn't be bad for a 4:44 hs miler.
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Re: "Not sure where this is taking me but I feel tired as shit all the time."
....That's probably too tired and too much wildly swinging of mileage. Why not do 100 - 120 a week at the same intensity? You will get the same out of it. You're not ready for 140 until the "tired as ...." is gone.
How do I know.... Been there, done that many years ago. Don't jeopardize your college running memories. You can get so tired that it will take you months to freshen up properly for racing...